5723 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

Lamar can dictate a bit anyway. I was talking about once you get a trade details worked out then allowing Lamar to negotiate. You just need 2 teams l, obv the more the better, but just need two to get a bidding war going. I wouldnt let him negotiate til you work out a deal in theory

But what if Lamar and that team can't reach a deal, then what? You're going back to whoever made the second best offer, maybe they pull it or lower it.

I generally agree that I think it's more likely than not that the Ravens allow Lamar to negotiate. But there are some clear negatives where it could work against you. Think it's definitely on the table that they force teams to deal for him without first having a chance to talk to him.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

But what if Lamar and that team can't reach a deal, then what? You're going back to whoever made the second best offer, maybe they pull it or lower it.

I generally agree that I think it's more likely than not that the Ravens allow Lamar to negotiate. But there are some clear negatives where it could work against you. Think it's definitely on the table that they force teams to deal for him without first having a chance to talk to him.

It should work out both ways tbh. I do think a team will have a general idea what it will take to sign lamar if they make a trade. Whether they are allowed to negotiate or not.

[cprenegade]

If I'm the Jets, I'm looking at this past off-season and draft. They took the OROY, the DROY, and they took Johnson who wasn't bad, on top of the guy who was the runaway favorite for OROY before tearing his ACL. And I'm thinking that maybe I don't want to give up all of my draft capital for one guy.

 

I think I would tend to agree with you.  The Jets had 4 picks in the first 36 and nailed it.   If you're talking about at least my next two #1's, possibly 3, that's a heavy load to part with.  

 

But if I'm the owner or the Jet's fan base, maybe I feel differently.  The Jets hung in the playoff race until the very end despite getting terrible QB play.  And I'm not so quick to believe they can solve that in the draft.  They used the overall #2 pick in the 2021 draft on Zach Wilson who seems to have flamed out badly.  They made Sam Darnold the overall #3 pick in the 2018 draft.  He was traded away before finishing his rookie contract.  In 2016 they took Christian Hackenberg with a #2.  That's after using a 4th round pick on Bryce Petty in 2015.  2013 they used a #2 pick on Geno Smith and in 2009 the 5th overall pick on Mark Sanchez.  And in 2000, they had 4 picks in the 1st round,  and used one of them to pick Chad Pennington.  And that sums up the Jets QB drafting history in the Woody Johnson era.  

 

Johnson has said he believes all the Jets need is a QB in order to compete with Buffalo and Miami in the division and to be a SB contender and that he will do whatever it takes to get that QB.  So yeah, I think he would pay the money, give the full guarantee, and part with whatever draft picks it would take to get Jackson if he believes he could be that QB.  Whether the Ravens would want to move him within the conference adding another possible obstacle to getting to the SB is a big question.  

[bmore_ken]

I may be proven wrong but I don't see how there's any reason to believe there's going to be any long term contract signed by Lamar before the deadline.  It would have happened by now.  He'll be tagged and they'll take it from there. 

I believe that as well. But I think they'll eventually get it done.

[jamesdean]

I think I would tend to agree with you.  The Jets had 4 picks in the first 36 and nailed it.   If you're talking about at least my next two #1's, possibly 3, that's a heavy load to part with.  

 

But if I'm the owner or the Jet's fan base, maybe I feel differently.  The Jets hung in the playoff race until the very end despite getting terrible QB play.  And I'm not so quick to believe they can solve that in the draft.  They used the overall #2 pick in the 2021 draft on Zach Wilson who seems to have flamed out badly.  They made Sam Darnold the overall #3 pick in the 2018 draft.  He was traded away before finishing his rookie contract.  In 2016 they took Christian Hackenberg with a #2.  That's after using a 4th round pick on Bryce Petty in 2015.  2013 they used a #2 pick on Geno Smith and in 2009 the 5th overall pick on Mark Sanchez.  And in 2000, they had 4 picks in the 1st round,  and used one of them to pick Chad Pennington.  And that sums up the Jets QB drafting history in the Woody Johnson era.  

 

Johnson has said he believes all the Jets need is a QB in order to compete with Buffalo and Miami in the division and to be a SB contender and that he will do whatever it takes to get that QB.  So yeah, I think he would pay the money, give the full guarantee, and part with whatever draft picks it would take to get Jackson if he believes he could be that QB.  Whether the Ravens would want to move him within the conference adding another possible obstacle to getting to the SB is a big question.  

I could definitely see that scenario and I do think the Jets are a solid quarterback away from being in the SB conversation. They're loaded with young talent on both sides of the ball.  But I think the whole, "don't trade Lamar within your conference" is a lot of nonsense.  I could care less where he ends up.  The way he's played over the 2nd half of the past two seasons, there isn't much to fear in my opinion.  He's a good quarterback in a league filled with several of them and maybe 2 or 3 elite.  Get the best deal and if the Jets are that team, pull the trigger. 

[Slidemaster]

I wonder how backloaded they could make Jackson's deal (if it happens). It's going to be damn near impossible to get him a good receiving weapon if they don't.

[bmore_ken]

I wonder how backloaded they could make Jackson's deal (if it happens). It's going to be damn near impossible to get him a good receiving weapon if they don't.

They've drafted two good receivers since he's been here.

[Slidemaster]

They've drafted two good receivers since he's been here.

They need someone to be a star NOW, not in 2 or 3 years. And the guys they've drafted can't stay on the field. EDC has stated they're looking for veteran help. That's going to be very hard to come by.

[bmore_ken]

They need someone to be a star NOW, not in 2 or 3 years. And the guys they've drafted can't stay on the field. EDC has stated they're looking for veteran help. That's going to be very hard to come by.

My point is they drafted two good receivers while he's been here. They can't do it again? Who are the vet wr free agents that are going to cost a ton this off-season?

[Slidemaster]

My point is they drafted two good receivers while he's been here. They can't do it again? Who are the vet wr free agents that are going to cost a ton this off-season?

It's unlikely a guy they draft in the bottom half of round 1 will step in and be a star right away. It's not impossible (Justin Jefferson?) but it's unlikely enough you can't rely on it.

And the vet I'm referring to would be acquired by trade, not from FA. The big name is DeAndre Hopkins, but others have been thrown around, like Keenan Allen (unless he's cut, then it would be a FA situation).

[bmore_ken]

It's unlikely a guy they draft in the bottom half of round 1 will step in and be a star right away. It's not impossible (Justin Jefferson?) but it's unlikely enough you can't rely on it.

And the vet I'm referring to would be acquired by trade, not from FA. The big name is DeAndre Hopkins, but others have been thrown around, like Keenan Allen (unless he's cut, then it would be a FA situation).

Lots of teams runs solid passing games without those type of guys.

[Biggsy]

It's unlikely a guy they draft in the bottom half of round 1 will step in and be a star right away. It's not impossible (Justin Jefferson?) but it's unlikely enough you can't rely on it.

Maybe right away. But the top 5 leading WR's this season were all taken after the first round, with the exception of Jefferson. Metcalf was taken after the first round.
I'd prefer a proven commodity in a win-now scenario, like Hopkins or Allen. But a WR drafted on day 2 or 3 still has a chance to contribute.

[Slidemaster]

Maybe right away. But the top 5 leading WR's this season were all taken after the first round, with the exception of Jefferson. Metcalf was taken after the first round.
I'd prefer a proven commodity in a win-now scenario, like Hopkins or Allen. But a WR drafted on day 2 or 3 still has a chance to contribute.

I wanted Metcalf last year and the prevailing wisdom hrre was that he wasn't a big upgrade, if he were one at all. I just have a feeling that they're going to try hard to upgrade the passing game, and it feels like they're looking for a guy to be a proven commodity next year.

With that said I wouldn't complain if they took a receiver (even more than 1) in the draft. I just don't want to bank on that being the only upgrade.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

The "gotta have some high end WRs" is code for maybe our QB isn't all that fantastic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

#onRecord

I did predict they would be in this position and that trading him was a real possibility.

I like Lamar. I think he's a very good football player. I dont think he's a 250+ fully guaranteed player, and I think if the Ravens do that deal they will regret it.

With that said, at this point, with Lamar putting stuff on social media, I think he will be re-signed. I would explore hard what options are out there be in a position to draft a Bryce Young or CJ Stroud, but I think the Ravens will end up finding a way to retain him.

So if its not 250 guaranteed but its 230 and Lamar succeeds youll be here saying I said 250 is too much but not 230 right?? You take every opportunity to squirm out of a bad take because you werent super specific and you build in opportunities to say I said it had to be this, this and this.  HedgeGuy2.0. They are going to be giving him the biggest contract ever if it gets done. So say you think the Ravens will regret it.



The Ravens may not regret trying to find their next QB this offseason but they are so much more likely to regret doing that  vs signing Lamar. Its irresponsible to go a different direction even though it might work out

[TwentyThirtyFive]

If the Ravens go to the next guy the likely outcome for '23 is mediocrity or worse. Likely to miss the playoffs. With a roster that is still good overall. Its baffling that throwing at least 1 year away is ok with those that dont want to sign Lamar.  They will say, "you have to give so and so time to gel with the team". They literally would prop up an 8 or 9 win season as a positive.  Accepting and defending a non competitive season when the window is open now with a strong roster.

[Biggsy]

The "gotta have some high end WRs" is code for maybe our QB isn't all that fantastic

That's a pretty ignorant correlation made there. Just say you don't like Lamar, and leave it at that.

[jamesdean]

Its also just baffling to me that if the Ravens go to the next guy the likely outcome for '23 is mediocrity or worse. Likely to miss the playoffs. With a roster that is still good overall. Throwing a year away, but those that want to move away from Lamar will say thats ok. It was expected. You have to give so and so time to gel with the team. Literally accepting and defending a non competitive season

I would imagine having to endure the Orioles train wreck for all those 100+ loss seasons has created a hard exterior on Baltimore fans and allows them to accept a noncompetitive season from the Ravens.  But I don't feel moving away from Lamar guarantees instant futility.  They have a good team on both sides of the ball and just need to have a quarterback to be solid and minimize turnovers while putting up enough points to win 10 games.  Not spectacular but play-off worthy.  I think that's doable even with a rookie quarterback should they go that route. 

[Mackus]

I would imagine having to endure the Orioles train wreck for all those 100+ loss seasons has created a hard exterior on Baltimore fans and allows them to accept a noncompetitive season from the Ravens. But I don't feel moving away from Lamar guarantees instant futility. They have a good team on both sides of the ball and just need to have a quarterback to be solid and minimize turnovers while putting up enough points to win 10 games. Not spectacular but play-off worthy. I think that's doable even with a rookie quarterback should they go that route.

Not having a decent QB guarantees a noncompetitive season.

Not having Lamar doesn't guarantee we wouldn't have a decent QB in 2023, just makes it unlikely.

[Mike in STL]

Jalen Hurts > Lamar Jackson