24 replies to this topic

[Chris B]

6 of Teagarden's 7 hits on the season have driven in runs.

[Mike B]

6 of Teagarden's 7 hits on the season have driven in runs.

GIve him credit...he is making them count. He may have the toughest job on the team. He is the backup catcher to a guy who is a horse, who never wants to come out. TT plays once a week if he is lucky and he has come up with some key hits. That is not easy.

[Chris B]

GIve him credit...he is making them count. He may have the toughest job on the team. He is the backup catcher to a guy who is a horse, who never wants to come out. TT plays once a week if he is lucky and he has come up with some key hits. That is not easy.

I would hope he gets the start tonight...Let Matt have off today and tomorrow so he can be fresh going into Fenway.

[Oriole85]

I know some think clutch is a "myth." I don't.

I don't think it's a coincidence, Teagarden rises to the occasion. I felt more confident when he was batting last night than when Wieters was.

I'm a huge Teagarden fan btw, not gonna lie, seems like a cool dude!

[Oriole85]

I would hope he gets the start tonight...Let Matt have off today and tomorrow so he can be fresh going into Fenway.

Buck likes to give two days off in a row a lot of the time, so that's what I'm thinking. Don't forget his wife is due pretty soon so we might be see a little more Teagarden at any point. Hopefully we get a Ryan Ripken like situation, and the baby is born on an off-day!

[BSLBobPhelan]

I know some think clutch is a "myth." I don't.

I don't think it's a coincidence, Teagarden rises to the occasion. I felt more confident when he was batting last night than when Wieters was.

I'm a huge Teagarden fan btw, not gonna lie, seems like a cool dude!

I disagree. I don't think hes any more clutch than anybody else. Hes clearly not as bad as his season stats would indicate though. But I do love the story and he does seem like a cool guy.

[Oriole85]

I disagree. I don't think hes any more clutch than anybody else. Hes clearly not as bad as his season stats would indicate though. But I do love the story and he does seem like a cool guy.

Let me expand on that a bit, I don't think it's a coincidence Teagarden does better in the late innings than early in the game.

[Mackus]

Let me expand on that a bit, I don't think it's a coincidence Teagarden does better in the late innings than early in the game.

Well, first off, he doesn't perform better in late innings than early in the game.

This year he has an OPS of 717 in innings 1-3, .414 in innings 4-6, and .158 in innings 7-9. His extra inning OPS is 2.550, though. Of course, none of these splits are nearly large enough to gain any sort of knowledge from, with only 12, 15, 20, and 5 PAs in each of those splits, respectively.

For his career, he has a .737 OPS in innings 1-3, .795 in innings 4-6, and .487 in innings 7-9. He only had 3 career extra inning plate appearances prior to this season, in which he struck out twice and got hit by a pitch.

If you want to use the 5 PAs Teagarden has had in extra innings this year as a basis for assigning a "clutch" tag on him, go right ahead, but the logic behind doing so is pretty shaky. He may or may not be a clutch hitter, but quite simply there isn't enough of a sample on him to make any determination either way. And if you were going to make a determination based on the small sample you do have, it would have to conclude that he does not do any better later in games than he does earlier in games.

[Oriole85]

Well, first off, he doesn't perform better in late innings than early in the game.

This year he has an OPS of 717 in innings 1-3, .414 in innings 4-6, and .158 in innings 7-9. His extra inning OPS is 2.550, though. Of course, none of these splits are nearly large enough to gain any sort of knowledge from, with only 12, 15, 20, and 5 PAs in each of those splits, respectively.

For his career, he has a .737 OPS in innings 1-3, .795 in innings 4-6, and .487 in innings 7-9. He only had 3 career extra inning plate appearances prior to this season, in which he struck out twice and got hit by a pitch.

If you want to use the 5 PAs Teagarden has had in extra innings this year as a basis for assigning a "clutch" tag on him, go right ahead, but the logic behind doing so is pretty shaky. He may or may not be a clutch hitter, but quite simply there isn't enough of a sample on him to make any determination either way. And if you were going to make a determination based on the small sample you do have, it would have to conclude that he does not do any better later in games than he does earlier in games.

Thanks for looking up the stats for me, I neglected to do that. I was only thinking of this year, first off. I don't really care what he did before that, hadn't even heard of him until the Orioles acquired him. Obviously the extra-innings is a small sample size, he's a back-up and you aren't exactly going to get big sample sizes in such. It was a great decision on Buck's part to use him in that role last night. As I said, I wasn't surprised at all yesterday when he delivered. I think stats are useful and all, but I don't think they are everything even in determining clutch.

[BSLBobPhelan]

Seemed like a pretty obvious pinch hitting situation since lefties were hitting under .200 against that LHP and righties were hitting over .300.

[Mackus]

Thanks for looking up the stats for me, I neglected to do that. I was only thinking of this year, first off. I don't really care what he did before that, hadn't even heard of him until the Orioles acquired him. Obviously the extra-innings is a small sample size, he's a back-up and you aren't exactly going to get big sample sizes in such. It was a great decision on Buck's part to use him in that role last night. As I said, I wasn't surprised at all yesterday when he delivered. I think stats are useful and all, but I don't think they are everything even in determining clutch.

My point is that you can't possibly make an argument that Teagarden is nails in the clutch based on 5 plate appearances this year.

He's had a few really big hits for the team this year in very limited opportunities. Trying to assign some greater meaning to it than that, trying to say that those hits are because of some inherent ability to rise to the occasion that Teagarden possesses, is simply not sound logic. Saying that you were more confident in him last night than Wieters is strictly hindsight and almost certainly hyperbole. Were you hoping for Teagarden to PH for Wieters when Wieters a chance to put us ahead in the 9th? Or in the 11th? Or any of his other late-inning at bats when he could have started a rally? No, of course not, you obviously wanted Wieters up there over Teagarden as did everybody else in the world unless you were pulling for the Mariners to win. Wanting Teagarden instead of Avery against a LHP makes sense. Wanting Teagarden over Wieters makes none.

I hope Teagarden continues to come through in any important situations that he finds himself in, any small contribution he can make is certainly great and unexpected. I just think its kind of silly and without merit to try to put any deeper meaning on those contributions.

[Oriole85]

My point is that you can't possibly make an argument that Teagarden is nails in the clutch based on 5 plate appearances this year.

He's had a few really big hits for the team this year in very limited opportunities. Trying to assign some greater meaning to it than that, trying to say that those hits are because of some inherent ability to rise to the occasion that Teagarden possesses, is simply not sound logic. Saying that you were more confident in him last night than Wieters is strictly hindsight and almost certainly hyperbole. Were you hoping for Teagarden to PH for Wieters when Wieters a chance to put us ahead in the 9th? Or in the 11th? Or any of his other late-inning at bats when he could have started a rally? No, of course not, you obviously wanted Wieters up there over Teagarden as did everybody else in the world unless you were pulling for the Mariners to win. Wanting Teagarden instead of Avery against a LHP makes sense. Wanting Teagarden over Wieters makes none.

I hope Teagarden continues to come through in any important situations that he finds himself in, any small contribution he can make is certainly great and unexpected. I just think its kind of silly and without merit to try to put any deeper meaning on those contributions.

That's cool, you're not changing my opinion and I'm not changing yours so were going to have to disagree here.

Yes, I'm saying now in hindsight, but I actually was thinking that at the time. (If you don't believe me, that's fine)

And, no I wouldn't have replaced Wieters with him to PH and only would've replaced Wieters if there was a good opportunity for a pinch-runner.

[Mackus]

And, no I wouldn't have replaced Wieters with him to PH and only would've replaced Wieters if there was a good opportunity for a pinch-runner.

So you think Teagarden is better than Wieters late in the game (you were more confident in Teagarden coming through than Wieters) but you wouldn't PH Teagarden for him?

That doesn't really jive.

[mweb08]

Yeah, there's really no evidence of him being clutch. If you just feel better with him up than a much better hitter, well that's really weird, but go right ahead. Just don't use him as an example of a clutch hitter to debase the myth.

[Oriole85]

So you think Teagarden is better than Wieters late in the game (you were more confident in Teagarden coming through than Wieters) but you wouldn't PH Teagarden for him?

That doesn't really jive.

Even if I believe Teagarden was the player more likely to come through I still wouldn't have replaced him since Wieters is a much better catcher.

Are you not allowed to have gut feelings? Are do you have to look to a computer on every situation?

[BSLBobPhelan]

Theres gut feelings (maybe... starting Andino over quintanilla vs. RHP or something) and then theres pinch hitting Taylor Teagarden for Matt Wieters.

[mweb08]

Theres gut feelings (maybe... starting Andino over quintanilla vs. RHP or something) and then theres pinch hitting Taylor Teagarden for Matt Wieters.

Plus, saying Teagarden is clutch isn't a gut feeling. Saying you have a gut feeling he'll come through in one particular AB is.

[SportsGuy]

He is hitting 152...Has an OPS of 568.

Calling him clutch is a little bit of a stretch.

[Mackus]

Plus, saying Teagarden is clutch isn't a gut feeling. Saying you have a gut feeling he'll come through in one particular AB is.

Exactly. It's fine to have hunches and what not, but you don't attempt to fabricate a reason to justify the hunches when there isn't one.

[RShack]

The entire clutch argument is a classic issue for stats vs. other things. Some stat people will claim you're not looking at reality, that anything stats can't see doesn't exist. It's basically the same argument that says there is no spiritual dimension to life because science can't see it. So, all in all, it's basically a religious argument.

My theory is that Teagarden knows he can't hit, so he figures he better make the few hits he does get count