39 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

Yea, that is always a great idea. It works so well here at the beatiful Baltimore Arena.

Seriously though, I have to wonder if the dictator David Stern holds this up until be abdicates the throne.

He knows he screwed that up royally. He got so caught up in the Oklahoma City hype after Katrina that he allowed the arena situation and ownership situation in Seattle to get out of control until it was too late.

That's the great stain on his legacy, just like the 1993 expansion is the great stain on Paul Tagliabue's legacy, and the steroid era is Selig's.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Yea Tagliabue really botched that whole Jacksonville thing, huh.

[mweb08]

He knows he screwed that up royally. He got so caught up in the Oklahoma City hype after Katrina that he allowed the arena situation and ownership situation in Seattle to get out of control until it was too late.

That's the great stain on his legacy, just like the 1993 expansion is the great stain on Paul Tagliabue's legacy, and the steroid era is Selig's.

I think the Artest melee in the Palace, the CP3 trade nixing, and awful brand of basketball in the mid 90's that the Heat and Knicks were famous for are up there as well. Plus, OKC has worked out very well so far. It just should have been the Kings that moved there in retrospect.

The loss of a WS is up there for Bud too. Steroid use should be a stain for football and most likely basketball too, but people just don't seem to care much regarding those sports.

[Oriole85]

Yea, that is always a great idea. It works so well here at the beatiful Baltimore Arena.

Seriously though, I have to wonder if the dictator David Stern holds this up until be abdicates the throne.

It has Jay Leno written all over it, but I think he does.

[DJ MC]

I think the Artest melee in the Palace, the CP3 trade nixing, and awful brand of basketball in the mid 90's that the Heat and Knicks were famous for are up there as well. Plus, OKC has worked out very well so far. It just should have been the Kings that moved there in retrospect.

I think the only one that he was involved with was the Chris Paul trade, and that certainly wasn't at the level of standing aside while a crown-jewel city for the league lost their team.

[mweb08]

I think the only one that he was involved with was the Chris Paul trade, and that certainly wasn't at the level of standing aside while a crown-jewel city for the league lost their team.

They all happened during his reign.

I think you can question the process with the Paul trade at least as much as with the Sonics situation. And again, OKC is working out very well so far.

[DJ MC]

They all happened during his reign.

Yes, I'm aware of that . My point is that they weren't the direct or indirect result of actions by Stern in the same way as his lack of action in Seattle.

I think you can question the process with the Paul trade at least as much as with the Sonics situation. And again, OKC is working out very well so far.

OKC is working out fine. Baltimore is working out fine for the NFL, but that doesn't make the fiasco around the Browns move that came as a direct result of the handling of the 1993 expansion any less of a problem for Tagliabue's legacy.

The Paul trade is much closer to the example of Selig handing the 2002 All-Star Game. Both may be a microchasm of their respective tenures, but they really don't mean much in the long run. And believe me, I HATED the Paul trade veto.

[mweb08]

The style of basketball played absolutely was under his influence.

I personally think you're making too big of a deal of this move. It's a negative not to have a team in Seattle, but I don't think it's going to be a huge negative for Stern's legacy.

[DJ MC]

The style of basketball played absolutely was under his influence.

I personally think you're making too big of a deal of this move. It's a negative not to have a team in Seattle, but I don't think it's going to be a huge negative for Stern's legacy.

I think it's the NBA equivalent of the Colts leaving Baltimore.

[mweb08]

I think it's the NBA equivalent of the Colts leaving Baltimore.

And most people outside of Baltimore don't seem to look at that as some horrendous black mark on Pete Rozelle's legacy.

[Oriole85]

ESPN: Adam Silver: Seattle's hopes on hold

 

http://espn.go.com/n...talks-expansion

 

"Seattle is a wonderful market. It would be very additive to the league to have a team there," Silver said in an interview this week with ESPN. "But we're not planning on expanding right now so it's not a function of price."

 

Right now the NBA is dealing with a problem spot in Milwaukee with the Bucks. Last September, Silver visited Milwaukee and told a group of sponsors the Bradley Center was unfit and the team needed a new arena. In December, 78-year-old owner Herb Kohl announced he was planning to sell a portion of the franchise but wanted only investors who wouldn't move the team.

 

The Bucks' lease at the Bradley Center expires in 2017, which has essentially established a deadline to deal with the situation. It will not be simple. Recently, city politicians fought mayor Tom Barrett when he allocated a mere $175,000 in parking revenues to help the Bucks with building maintenance. New arenas these days cost upward of $400 million, and Silver and Kohl are looking for public funding.

[DJ MC]

The late 1980s were the exact wrong time to build a new arena. Pretty soon, the only one left will be the Palace, and who knows how long the Pistons will want to play there?

[Oriole85]

ESPN: Seattle's NBA hopes take hit

 

Silver recently said there are currently no plans for expansion to Seattle.

This leaves Hansen, a California-based hedge fund manager, without his biggest investor and driving force. It was Ballmer who pushed behind the scenes for Hansen to keep raising the offer for the Kings when it became bidding war with Ranadive last spring, sources said. Ballmer was a factor in Hansen secretly funneling money to a political action committee in Sacramento aimed at defeating the arena deal through a ballot measure.

Hansen's biggest achievement in Seattle, however, is still in place, if tenuously. He has a Memorandum of Understanding with King County to build an arena in the SoDo district of downtown. After numerous attempts to get public money fell through, the county has agreed to provide $200 million to the estimated $500 million project. Under the terms of the deal, however, the arena will not break ground until an NBA team is awarded to Seattle via relocation or expansion.

With the values of NBA teams expanding rapidly and the demand at its highest point in decades -- there were nine bidders on the Bucks and three groups that offered more than $1 billion for the Clippers -- Hansen faces a huge challenge to land a franchise.
 

Getting a team in Seattle now would likely cost in excess of $1 billion, and Hansen just lost his much wealthier partner.

[BSLMikeLowe]

The escalating values also makes expansion a more attractive option for the league. Once the new TV deal is worked out in a couple years, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

[Oriole85]

The escalating values also makes expansion a more attractive option for the league. Once the new TV deal is worked out in a couple years, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

It's possible but I don't think they will expand. If anything they should contract (which isn't happening because of the Union). I think they like having Seattle as a viable alternative like with the lack of NFL team in LA. Teams can continue to use Seattle as leverage. It increases the bids when teams are being sold. I doubt they'll do anything until the Milwaukee deal goes through at minimum.

[BSLMikeLowe]

It's possible but I don't think they will expand. If anything they should contract (which isn't happening because of the Union). I think they like having Seattle as a viable alternative like with the lack of NFL team in LA. Teams can continue to use Seattle as leverage. It increases the bids when teams are being sold. I doubt they'll do anything until the Milwaukee deal goes through at minimum.

 

If the Clippers are worth $2 billion (which in reality they aren't, but sports and entertainment aren't exactly living in a reality-based world these days) then an expansion team in Seattle could easily fetch $1.5 billion in a couple years. That could be about $50 million for each owner (depending on whatever cut the league takes). I think that's worth a lot more than the perceived value of a "leverage market"....a bird in hand (or 50 million birds) is worth more than 2 in the bush.

 

As for the benefits contraction, that's all based on a competitive/quality of play standpoint. As long as the revenues keep coming in, that won't be of importance to the NBA.

[DJ MC]

If the Clippers are worth $2 billion (which in reality they aren't, but sports and entertainment aren't exactly living in a reality-based world these days) then an expansion team in Seattle could easily fetch $1.5 billion in a couple years. That could be about $50 million for each owner (depending on whatever cut the league takes). I think that's worth a lot more than the perceived value of a "leverage market"....a bird in hand (or 50 million birds) is worth more than 2 in the bush.

 

As for the benefits contraction, that's all based on a competitive/quality of play standpoint. As long as the revenues keep coming in, that won't be of importance to the NBA.

 

Expansion also cuts the percentage of national media revenues each owner will receive.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Expansion also cuts the percentage of national media revenues each owner will receive.

 

But that money is paid out annually over time, usually around 8-10 years. The $50/ea million is a lump sum payment. If an owner invests it wisely, they could almost certainly make up the difference for what they'd have to divvy out to a 31st franchise over the life of the TV contract. Like I said, a bird in hand...

 

Also, if the league does have expansion in mind, then they could get a stipulation in their next TV deal that makes up a little bit of that difference too. Adding a team in the 13th largest TV market might make the national TV deal worth a few extra bucks.

[Oriole85]

SportsPress Northwest: THIEL: BALLMER IS DONE HERE, BUT ARENA PROJECT ISN’T

 

Keep in mind that the expiration date on the project’s key document, the memorandum of understanding between Hansen and his public partners, the city and King County, is November 2017.  At once, the date seems suddenly much closer, yet is far enough away that much can happen in the incredibly fast-changing world of sports business.
 

Many fans eager to see the return of the Sonics were floored by Ballmer’s abrupt abandonment of the Seattle project in favor of being an NBA owner in Los Angeles. Those who know Ballmer were not.

His longtime passion to be an NBA owner has not wavered. He wanted to be an owner years before he heard of Hansen, and is likely to be an aggressive supporter of Seattle’s pursuit of a team, although restrictions soon upon him as an owner will keep him from butting into the business of a Seattle bid.

 

As for the Seattle project, Hansen has a huge void to fill, but the cash is less of a consideration than credibility. There’s lots of wealthy, sports-minded people sitting on big piles of cash, most of it in the tech community. Some stayed away because the big dog, Ballmer, always eats first.

 

Hansen knows he and his remaining partners, led by the Nordstrom brothers, have more vetting to do, as would the NBA if and when the time comes. Hardly impossible, but another complication.

 

If TV revenues are substantially greater starting in 2016, that will help make expansion to 32 teams more plausible — the pie will have grown so much that sharing two more slices will be acceptable. Particularly after Ballmer’s wealth, impatience and boredom increased the likely expansion fee per team from $600 million to $800 million or, hell, $1 billion. Divide $2 billion among 30 existing franchises in a one-time payment, and you have many happy owners.

A year ago, I thought Ballmer/Hansen offering $625 million for the Kings to move from Sacramento was the acme of foolishness. And six weeks ago, I thought being a racist was a dead-end proposition.

Referencing No. 2 above: Regarding pro sports, business and crazy people with crazy wealth, assume nothing about outcomes.

[BSLMikeLowe]

There were two other groups willing to bid over a billion-and-a-half for the Clippers. Hansen will have no shortage of people wanting in on the action if/when the NBA is serious about a team in Seattle.