398 replies to this topic

[weird-O]

I think it's folly to expect the manager or the players to not want to win in the immediate term and instead focus on the future.

How much influence, if any, the manager should have on the team's direction or any individual player moves is certainly something to debate. But Buck should always want to be improving the on-field team however possible. And cost be damned, because cost is not something he need concern himself with.

Harbaugh has addressed this topic, which I think does translate between sports. He said something like (paraphrasing heavily): "I always want the GM to pay my guys. Make them happy. It's not my job to worry about the money, I'd pay all of them whatever they want.".

Good points. But speaking specifically to the issue of Buck's influence on those decisions, there is a big difference between Buck's, "I wanted to go for it one more time" and Harb's "I always want them to...".

To me, it reads as Buck saying he influenced the halt of any moves to subtract from the team.

[Mackus]

Good points. But speaking specifically to the issue of Buck's influence on those decisions, there is a big difference between Buck's, "I wanted to go for it one more time" and Harb's "I always want them to...".

To me, it reads as Buck saying he influenced the halt of any moves to subtract from the team.

 

Influencing the moves and making the moves are very different.

 

Buck's voice has weight, but he still isn't the final decision maker.  If you have a team of advisors, you give different weights to different voices depending on the topic.  You gather all your advice and recommendations, and then decide the best course of action which may be exactly what one person advised or may be an amalgamation of all the advice.

 

I believe that Buck has been one of the voices in the room.  But he's still just a voice.  No matter how much emphasis is given to his recommendations, it's still up to the people making the final decisions to decide what to do and take responsibility for those moves.  If they don't like what Buck is telling them to do, then stop listening to him.

[SportsGuy]

Influencing the moves and making the moves are very different.

 

Buck's voice has weight, but he still isn't the final decision maker.  If you have a team of advisors, you give different weights to different voices depending on the topic.  You gather all your advice and recommendations, and then decide the best course of action which may be exactly what one person advised or may be an amalgamation of all the advice.

 

I believe that Buck has been one of the voices in the room.  But he's still just a voice.  No matter how much emphasis is given to his recommendations, it's still up to the people making the final decisions to decide what to do and take responsibility for those moves.  If they don't like what Buck is telling them to do, then stop listening to him.

No but I think its pretty apparent he is in the room and likely has equal say to anyone else.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

At this point its all water under the bridge. We didn't make the moves we really should have (whether it was to really go for it or move pieces when they had real trade value).  We didn't. But all the FO can do at this point is try and take a different approach and build a consistently competitive team. We are hearing some good things. But only time will tell if ownership and the FO are really going to do a better job.

[SportsGuy]

I do think you are getting the same or more for Manny and Britton as you would have gotten last deadline (w/r/t Britton and this offseason w/r/t Manny).  So, we may not lose anything there.  

 

Jones and Brach we lose but neither was fetching a ton.

 

Schoop you lost.

[Crouseman]

Influencing the moves and making the moves are very different.

 

Buck's voice has weight, but he still isn't the final decision maker.  If you have a team of advisors, you give different weights to different voices depending on the topic.  You gather all your advice and recommendations, and then decide the best course of action which may be exactly what one person advised or may be an amalgamation of all the advice.

 

I believe that Buck has been one of the voices in the room.  But he's still just a voice.  No matter how much emphasis is given to his recommendations, it's still up to the people making the final decisions to decide what to do and take responsibility for those moves.  If they don't like what Buck is telling them to do, then stop listening to him.

Buck reports directly to ownership.  Big factor in getting his voice heard.  Well known he is Pete's closest baseball adviser.

[Crouseman]

At this point its all water under the bridge. We didn't make the moves we really should have (whether it was to really go for it or move pieces when they had real trade value).  We didn't. But all the FO can do at this point is try and take a different approach and build a consistently competitive team. We are hearing some good things. But only time will tell if ownership and the FO are really going to do a better job.

 

Yep, but its probably why DD has the wheel again.  The fool hardy decision to go for it ended up the best way to go.  We hit an iceberg and the Baby Bros woke up and decided to change the direction of the Titanic.  

[CA-ORIOLE]

Buck reports directly to ownership. Big factor in getting his voice heard. Well known he is Pete's closest baseball adviser.

I wouldn't go so far as that he "reports" directly to PA/ownership. But I don't doubt he has a direct line, advises (too often) and exerts influence and that sometimes that influence is counter to the FO direction. That also gives him influence with the FO/DD in many ways. Logically, It has to. I bet there's been a whole lot of "what does Buck think" going on for years. That should not be surprising to anyone. Which is why I can't image the two coming back together.

[Crouseman]

I wouldn't go so far as that he "reports" directly to PA/ownership. But I don't doubt he has a direct line, advises (too often) and exerts influence and that sometimes that influence is counter to the FO direction. That also gives him influence with the FO/DD in many ways. Logically, It has to. I bet there's been a whole lot of "what does Buck think" going on for years. That should not be surprising to anyone. Which is why I can't image the tow coming back together.

He doesn't report to DD or Brady.  He was there before them.  I mean neither DD or Brady is in charge of Buck or can tell him what to do.

[CA-ORIOLE]

He doesn't report to DD or Brady. He was there before them. I mean neither DD or Brady is in charge of Buck or can tell him what to do.

Report, take/follow direction, lines of authority, communication and decision making etc. Lets just agree its effed up and has been effed up for awhile. Whatever it is, Buck has too much influence. Should surprise no one.

[weird-O]

He doesn't report to DD or Brady.  He was there before them.  I mean neither DD or Brady is in charge of Buck or can tell him what to do.

Referring back to that article that was written earlier this year (the one that was largely about Brady's mysterious role with the club, the article that included an interview with Brady, but I cannot remember who wrote it). Anyway, that writer said that Brady seems to hold the highest adviser influence with Peter. He went on to say, if there was anyone who could get Buck fired, it would be Brady. I didn't take that to mean that Brady had any desire or reason to have Buck fired, it was used to show that while Buck has a great deal of influence on decisions, Brady ranks him. 

I mention all this to say, I think Buck and Brady walk parallel paths. But, if there was ever a true disagreement, I think Brady could have Buck overruled, the way Buck can and has had DD overruled (specifically regarding the DFA of Ubaldo).   

[bmore_ken]

If Buck stays, it'll be the second straight year I won't buy a ticket package. The team needs a fresh start and a younger manager IMO. And believe it or not, I think DD is coming back.

[clapdiddy]

As much as I respect what Buck has done for the organization, I'd like to see us start off next season with a fresh face at the helm.

[ivanbalt]

If Buck stays, it'll be the second straight year I won't buy a ticket package. The team needs a fresh start and a younger manager IMO. And believe it or not, I think DD is coming back.

 

I'd be shocked if DD returned but not Buck.

[bmore_ken]

I guess we'll see. But he seems to be the guy directing the start of the rebuild. These trade decisions are pretty important to be made by a guy who won't be here next year.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

I do think you are getting the same or more for Manny and Britton as you would have gotten last deadline (w/r/t Britton and this offseason w/r/t Manny).  So, we may not lose anything there.  

 

Jones and Brach we lose but neither was fetching a ton.

 

Schoop you lost.

Not sure I agree Rob. I think we would have gotten a better return on Manny last summer. But we'll never know. Might be right about Britton, but we'll see how this plays out this week.

[bnickle]

Right...But the time really was after 2016 to sell off. They screwed that up (i dont care about the small chances they had to contend..it just wasnt likely).

No team is going to sell of coming off a playoff appearance

[SportsGuy]

No team is going to sell of coming off a playoff appearance

Not sure this is true but no short sighted team full of people with no vision is going to do it, that's for sure.

 

Its not hard to figure out what direction your organization is headed in and what others around you are doing.

 

It was more wrong, given the total landscape of everything, for them to do what they did...and that's not just in hindsight.  

[SportsGuy]

Not sure I agree Rob. I think we would have gotten a better return on Manny last summer. But we'll never know. Might be right about Britton, but we'll see how this plays out this week.

We may have for Manny...Not saying otherwise.  

 

But he had a rough year last year, so who knows how teams viewed him.

[bnickle]

Bingo! Its the smoking gun we have been looking for on Buck's influence on the organization.

ROFL. You got him !