640 replies to this topic

[bnickle]

Because Flacco can't throw an accurate pass

[BSLChrisStoner]

Btw people were excited about the Maclin signing. I don't care about a name or even the stats. I want a physical, strong handed, contested ball catcher. Flacco just doesn't throw guys open enough. You need a Boldin type player. Now, if that guy can run routes and has some speed ( Julio Jones) well that's just extra gravy.

That issue (Flacco's accuracy) makes the decision to operate a West Coast offense all the more head scratching imo.

That's not Joe's game.

Mason and Boldin were so solid, and the Ravens ran plays for them which worked to both their skillset, and what Joe did/does well.

 

[Mackus]

Short, quick passes certainly aren't Flacco's strength as a QB.  Sort of incompatible with what Landry does best.

[bnickle]

You need a speed guy like a Wallace or Torrey on one side and a big physical guy like Boldin on the other. Landry for what he's gonna get paid doesn't interest me at all. And that's not to degrade him in any way. He's not that compatible with Flacco.


I think finding a TE that can get open in the short to intermediate level is very important for Flacco too. Pitta never put up huge numbers here but he was invaluable for Joe. Especially before the hip injuries when he stretched the field more.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Short, quick passes certainly aren't Flacco's strength as a QB.  Sort of incompatible with what Landry does best.

Yeah, and not just short and quick... but leading guys, and precision. 

You need someone physical, with a catch radius that can run outs to the sideline on one side....  and someone that can go down the field, and make plays on 50/50 balls. Actually high point the ball, and go after it.

[bnickle]

Between Heap, Pitta, and Daniels Joe always had a reliable solid TE that could work the intermediate game. I know that's what they envisioned with Watson but after his injury he just didn't have quite enough juice left in the tank this year.


And to be honest part of that might be on the system and Joe as well. Need to refocus the efforts to get the TE the ball more at the intermediate level

[JordanKough]

Short, quick passes certainly aren't Flacco's strength as a QB.  Sort of incompatible with what Landry does best.

 

Having watched a fair amount of Landry the last few years for fantasy reasons, I'm not totally going to agree with this. 

 

One they use him in the slot because they have Parker and Stills. So he doesn't need to play on the outside. Could he be the comeback, outside working WR? Totally. He's got the quick twitch on his breaks and he's got the hands. He makes contested catches in traffic and has a quality radius for not a huge guy. A lot of the routes that Landry hits are, he actually isn't the first read. So it's less of a Patriots Edelman type, and more of a deep route over the top, Landry underneath type stuff. He'd also be a great fit for all the WR/TE screens that we ran to Boyle that failed miserably. He's also very good at getting open in the red zone. And surpringly ran more fade and corner plays in the end zone than you'd expect from a small WR, too.

 

IMO, he's the perfect fit for this offense and for MM.

 

Frankly, now that I think about this, maybe they shouldn't be so worried about Joe. But if MM is going to stay, make sure he has a say in personnel. Get him the types he wants. Give him the lineman he wants (of Jensen/Hurst/Howard, I think he'd prefer more athletic as he was much more of a screen guy in Phi), give him a WR that can work underneath. And then see how he wants to build and approach the offense now. And have the coaching staff and the FO seemingly working in concert for once.

 

Do the same thing with Pagano. What do you want to do with Weddle? Where do you need help? What do you want to scheme wise, and where do we potentially need to fill holes (way fewer holes on defense, IMO). 

 

But...if Landry isn't the fit. Don't sign him. But figure out what's out there, what fit you need and go get that type. 

[bnickle]

They aren't spending what it'll take on Landry. Nor should they.

[JordanKough]

They aren't spending what it'll take on Landry. Nor should they.

 

Like I said, I don't actually care who it is. I want MM to want the guy they do go after though. If it's not Landry, fine (your argument here feels a bit thin as to why but whatever not the point). 

 

They desperately need some WR talent. And they should absolutely be willing to pay market value or overpay someone for it, IMO. 

[bnickle]

No they shouldnt

[JordanKough]

Trollers gonna troll. Forgot your 2018 motto hasn't changed from 2017. 

 

Even if they want to blow it up, if you're investing in a 24-26-year-old guy, it's totally worth the assets, IMO. Even if you plan to dump Flacco after next year having a Landry type in the wings for whatever asset you bring isn't really much risk at all. 

[Mackus]

I get your point, Jordan, that you want the coordinator to have talent that he thinks he can optimize based on what he wants to do.

 

But on the other hand, do we really want to give Marty Mornhinweg more responsibility?  That seems like an odd step to take given how abysmal he's done as coordinator (IMO, at least, and I think many people share that thought).  Things picked up late, and certainly he gets some credit for that, but 2 good offensive performances over the 2nd half of the season doesn't really make me think he's a guy I want to hand more control to.  It makes me think he's a guy I'd rather see employed elsewhere.

[Mackus]

I can't see the Packers keeping both Nelson and Cobb having just paid Adams.  They can save $10.25M by cutting Nelson and $9.5M by cutting Cobb (both are entering the final year of their deals).

 

Seems like an obvious choice to dump Cobb, and I wouldn't be too excited to sign him were I the Ravens.  But if they decide to dump Nelson (perhaps if they cut both), I would jump on him despite his age and recent injuries.

[JordanKough]

But on the other hand, do we really want to give Marty Mornhinweg more responsibility?  

 

If not him, who? I could hardly say that I trust Ozzie to build the offense. But I want him to have a voice. Seems like their is an eternal disconnect between coaches and FO these days. 

 

All that being said, MM would be gone in my book. And I'd probably have let Harbs go, too. I'd have retooled everyone, and went after the next "McVay" type (I don't know who that might be). I think a genius offensive mind and Flacco could really go somewhere. But that's not the cards we're being dealt. MM is going to be back, and if he is, ask him what he think he can do, what he needs and build around it. 

 

I could stick my fingers in my ears and whine about how bad the team is, how Flacco is done, how Harbs sucks and they should all be fired and let go next year, but let's be serious, that's not going to happen. So I'd much rather approach next year like one where we're real competitors, and do the things that good teams and coachings staffs do. 

 

Sure, they don't deserve our trust. But this team isn't going to get better if we don't offer it up. 

[Mackus]

If not him, who?

 

Anybody, really.  Assuming there isn't a consensus, I'd much rather sign a WR that Ozzie or DeCosta or Harbaugh or even Flacco think can help than the guy Marty chooses.   I don't trust any of those guys very much as far as WR goes, but Marty is at the bottom of the list.  He's shown no ability to do his small role well, that's not a wise recipe for promotion and expanded responsibilities. 

 

I'd have the decision-makers talk to Marty and Harbaugh and Flacco and figure out what type of receivers they want to work with, but that is information-gathering.  Not direction-taking. 

[JordanKough]

I'd have the decision-makers talk to Marty and Harbaugh and Flacco and figure out what type of receivers they want to work with, but that is information-gathering.  Not direction-taking. 

 

Really, you trust Ozzie to pick a WR? I LOVE Ozzie, and want him here longer than anyone. But the man can't find a young WR that's the right fit for an offensive scheme for his life. But that's not really my point either. 

 

So the conversation should go as follows if you ask me. Ozzie rates the guys and says these are the guys were willing to go to market value on. MM, Joe and Harbs say this guy is the one we want on the field. If there is only one, that's rated well enough, then fine. But I'd imagine that the three aforementioned WRs are all going to rate just about the same with various pros and cons. 

 

I actually don't think we're saying something all that different. But I'd make MM and Joe an important part of the discussion that carries some significant weight at the end of the decision because I think the rating of what we know is out there is about the same across the board, IMO. 

 

The bigger question is, are they actually willing to pony up for WR talent. And what market tier are they willing to dabble in. Once the FO decides that, I think you have to let the coaching staff get actively involved. 

[Mackus]

Yes.  I trust the GM to sign free agent players more than I trust the offensive coordinator to do so.

[bnickle]

This team investing big money in a WR right now is the worst thing they could do. For multiple reasons. If you want to take a shot in the 1st round of the draft again I can accept that though I likely wouldn't love it. I mean I wanted Corey Davis bad last year. It's possible another prospect could make me want to invest there again this year. But big $ on a FA at the position just is not smart. Give me more of the competent value guys like Wallace and Maclin. Maclin didn't work out this year but he was 100% the right target for his skill set, experience, and salary

[You Play to Win the Game]

Keep doing what you're doing, keep getting what you're getting. I'm ready to try something new and get offensive playmakers via FA.

[JordanKough]

Yes.  I trust the GM to sign free agent players more than I trust the offensive coordinator to do so.

 

Eh, I don't want anyone that doesn't have the Ozzie stamp of approval. So that's not really what I'm saying.

 

I'm saying there are multiple fits out there for us right now. I think Ozzie should set the parameters (and if it's one or no one so be it, I don't believe that) and then coordinators should get heavy input in the final call. 

 

You think coordinators should be lightly consulted and Ozzie should just choose who he wants?

 

I guess it's more like this, if MM says, Landry is the guy, he's perfect for the scheme and I want him. And Ozzie is just looking for the best deal and can save, say $5 mill in guaranteed money going after Lee instead. I want MM's voice to very much be heard and very seriously considered. And if it's not, I'd be disappointed.

 

These guys have to work together. And it' not all GM and scouts, and it's not all coaches. But the offensive skill talent that Ozzie has put on the board for this team has flat out sucked for the last 3 years.