21 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

http://www.platoonad... ... -flaw.html

There is some backstory to this article, that is explained within, but the basic idea is a writer tweeted that Brady Anderson was a steroid user, and this is an examination of that accusation.

It is a popular comment to make around Baltimore and around the country--I hear it on my tours all the time--but when you really start to think about it, it doesn't fit from a performance standpoint.

[FlavaDave10]

Bigger question: How does he still have awesome sideburns? Does he take Sideburn Enhancing Drugs?

[Oriole85]

http://www.platoonadvantage.com/2012-articles/august/the-flaw.html

There is some backstory to this article, that is explained within, but the basic idea is a writer tweeted that Brady Anderson was a steroid user, and this is an examination of that accusation.

It is a popular comment to make around Baltimore and around the country--I hear it on my tours all the time--but when you really start to think about it, it doesn't fit from a performance standpoint.

This didn't really help Brady's case...

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=1760890

[FlavaDave10]

http://www.platoonadvantage.com/2012-articles/august/the-flaw.html

There is some backstory to this article, that is explained within, but the basic idea is a writer tweeted that Brady Anderson was a steroid user, and this is an examination of that accusation.

It is a popular comment to make around Baltimore and around the country--I hear it on my tours all the time--but when you really start to think about it, it doesn't fit from a performance standpoint.

Hmmm... that actually makes some sense. If he was using back in 1996, why would he stop? It's safe to assume that he either stopped or the steroids just stopped working for him.

[LanceRinker]

This didn't really help Brady's case...

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=1760890

Yes - Jim Palmer wondering if Brady took steroids is the nail in the coffin. How many of us have laughed or mocked the things that Palmer has said before, and still does, during O's games?

Not sure if I'm going to use an interview Palmer gave in 2004 to slam the door shut on whether Brady did or did not take steroids.

And don't take this as me trying to attack you or anything, just making the point that Palmer will say and has said just about anything that comes to mind regardless of how well thought out it is.

[Oriole85]

Yes - Jim Palmer wondering if Brady took steroids is the nail in the coffin. How many of us have laughed or mocked the things that Palmer has said before, and still does, during O's games?

Not sure if I'm going to use an interview Palmer gave in 2004 to slam the door shut on whether Brady did or did not take steroids.

And don't take this as me trying to attack you or anything, just making the point that Palmer will say and has said just about anything that comes to mind regardless of how well thought out it is.

Not at all on the attacking front, just pointing out it's not so great when a representative of your team states it.

[Mark Carver]

I think MLB messed with the design of the baseball in 1996 to try and draw fans back to the ballpark after the disaster of the work stoppage of 1994-95. We see a dramatic jump in the HR per game and LgAvg from the last full season of 1993 when compared to 1996. Home runs were a flying everywhere and it would not take much for Anderson to push those doubles into home runs.

In the AL -

1993 - 2268 games, 2074 HR = 1 HR per 0.914 game with a 148 LgAvg
1994 - 1594 games, 1774 HR = 1 HR per 1.113 game with a 127 LgAvg
1995 - 2020 games, 2164 HR = 1 HR per 1.071 game with a 155 LgAvg
1996 - 2266 games, 2742 HR = 1 HR per 1.210 game with a 196 LgAvg
1997 - 2264 games, 2477 HR = 1 HR per 1.094 game with a 177 LgAvg

Afterall,"Chicks dig the long ball....".

[FlavaDave10]

Not at all on the attacking front, just pointing out it's not so great when a representative of your team states it.

Let me ask you this: If Anderson was using steroids, why the sudden drop off? I can't think of any logical reason as to why he would stop using steroids if he had such a dramatic increase in production. Makes no sense.

[LanceRinker]

Not at all on the attacking front, just pointing out it's not so great when a representative of your team states it.

That's true and a very fair point to be made - however, Palmer has said a lot about a lot of people that he played with and for throughout his career. The guy doesn't have much of a filter so I take much of what he says with a grain of salt.

[Mackus]

Brady's amazing 1996 season had nothing to do with steroid use.

I believe Brady did use steroids and/or some other PEDs, just like the majority of MLB players of his era.

But, if anyone thinks that he only had that amazing '96 season because of steroids, then they don't understand anything about Brady, steroids, or baseball in general.

[Can_of_corn]

First off Anderson's season was pretty much the same as Davey Johnson's year in '73 and I don't hear Palmer talking about that.

As to the why did he stop, it could have been a physical reaction to what he was taking. Maybe testicular shrinkage was too high a price to pay for Brady.

I also agree with Mackus that a healthy percentage of players were doing something.

[Bob Klein]

That's true and a very fair point to be made - however, Palmer has said a lot about a lot of people that he played with and for throughout his career. The guy doesn't have much of a filter so I take much of what he says with a grain of salt.

Always a good idea. As a player, Jim used to complain -- publicly, in the media -- about his own team mates, when he thought they were making him look bad. Once he suggested the outfielders should try harder to catch fly balls. He also flamed at least one Orioles relief pitcher.

[RShack]

Let me ask you this: If Anderson was using steroids, why the sudden drop off? I can't think of any logical reason as to why he would stop using steroids if he had such a dramatic increase in production. Makes no sense.

Because he did it as a one-year thing... presumably because he was unwilling to risk the health effects of long-term use.

*During* his big HR season, he said that people shouldn't expect this to be the new him, that this was just a one-year thing. I remember when he said it, simply because *that* is what got me to think it was 'roids while it was happening.

Let me ask you this: If it wasn't about about him doing a one-year-only 'roids regimen, how could he possibly know in advance that he wouldn't continue to have that kind of power? (Answer: He couldn't.)

EDIT: I am not dissing him for it. I think blaming guys for roids has gotten way out of hand. For the most part, people didn't fully realize what they were about until later... these guys aren't scientists, they're jocks.. and at the time, roids seemed just like greenies, only better. It is only in retrospect that it seems like such a bad thing.

[DJ MC]

Because he did it as a one-year thing... presumably because he was unwilling to risk the health effects of long-term use.

*During* his big HR season, he said that people shouldn't expect this to be the new him, that this was just a one-year thing. I remember when he said it, simply because *that* is what got me to think it was 'roids while it was happening.

Let me ask you this: If it wasn't about about him doing a one-year-only 'roids regimen, how could he possibly know in advance that he wouldn't continue to have that kind of power? (Answer: He couldn't.)

EDIT: I am not dissing him for it. I think blaming guys for roids has gotten way out of hand. For the most part, people didn't fully realize what they were about... these guys aren't scientists, they're jocks.. and roids were just like greenies, only better. It is only in retrospect that they seem so bad.

So, considering how much we know about players and how between small adjustments and everything coming together and luck and randomness a player can have a great year out of character, that can't possibly be an explanation? More than that, a player that was as hard a worker as he was throughout his career couldn't notice all of that an be aware of it both from a personal and from a historical standpoint?

[Mackus]

Because he did it as a one-year thing... presumably because he was unwilling to risk the health effects of long-term use.

*During* his big HR season, he said that people shouldn't expect this to be the new him, that this was just a one-year thing. I remember when he said it, simply because *that* is what got me to think it was 'roids while it was happening.

Let me ask you this: If it wasn't about about him doing a one-year-only 'roids regimen, how could he possibly know in advance that he wouldn't continue to have that kind of power? (Answer: He couldn't.)

EDIT: I am not dissing him for it. I think blaming guys for roids has gotten way out of hand. For the most part, people didn't fully realize what they were about until later... these guys aren't scientists, they're jocks.. and at the time, roids seemed just like greenies, only better. It is only in retrospect that it seems like such a bad thing.

Don't you think that if steroids had that type of obvious and immediate effect that we would have seen many more obvious examples of guys with hugely dramatic changes in performance?

I think Brady likely did steroids in 1996. I think he also did them before and after. Maybe he didn't, though. There is no way that steroids alone turned Brady from a 15-20 HR guy into a 50 HR guy. That is just simply impossible. Brady had an amazing season, and that's all that happened. He may have been on steroids, or he may have not, but they alone can't even remotely explain the jump in performance that season.

[JeremyStrain]

Don't you think that if steroids had that type of obvious and immediate effect that we would have seen many more obvious examples of guys with hugely dramatic changes in performance?

I think Brady likely did steroids in 1996. I think he also did them before and after. Maybe he didn't, though. There is no way that steroids alone turned Brady from a 15-20 HR guy into a 50 HR guy. That is just simply impossible. Brady had an amazing season, and that's all that happened. He may have been on steroids, or he may have not, but they alone can't even remotely explain the jump in performance that season.

Yeah, I think it's more likely that it was a perfect storm of potential outside influence, juiced balls, and having a great year.

I chimed in a few years ago that with all the doubles Brady hit throughout his career, that it wouldn't take much to turn a 50 double/20 HR season into a 20 double/50 HR season, so I don't think it's as big of a jump as people think it was for that season.

[RShack]

Don't you think that if steroids had that type of obvious and immediate effect that we would have seen many more obvious examples of guys with hugely dramatic changes in performance?

We did: Sosa. McGwire. Bonds. Luis Gonzales.
Why do you think Andruw Jones fell off a cliff at 30?

I think Brady likely did steroids in 1996. I think he also did them before and after. Maybe he didn't, though. There is no way that steroids alone turned Brady from a 15-20 HR guy into a 50 HR guy. That is just simply impossible. Brady had an amazing season, and that's all that happened. He may have been on steroids, or he may have not, but they alone can't even remotely explain the jump in performance that season.

Sure they can. It's like anything else that's performance enhancing: How much of a diff do they have to make to be readily noticeable? It depends. It's not as simple as "roids make X% improvement". People are different, dosages are different, lots of things are different from one case to another.

I still haven't heard one compelling argument about how Brady could have possible known his sudden and abrupt improvement would not continue unless he thought it was due to things that he would not continue doing. Now, I agree that it might not have been as black-and-white as being on/off roids... it might have been about different versions of roids or different doses of roids or whatever. But whatever it was, it was under his control or else he could not have known that his power would suddenly revert to what it had been.

[DJ MC]

We did: Sosa. McGwire. Bonds. Luis Gonzales.
Why do you think Andruw Jones fell off a cliff at 30?

Those guys generally saw multiple years of increased performance, not just one huge year in a sea of good ones. I'm not sure why you're bringing up Jones, because the list of players who were great for a while then crashed would be so long it would, well, crash this site.

Sure they can. It's like anything else that's performance enhancing: How much of a diff do they have to make to be readily noticeable? It depends. It's not as simple as "roids make X% improvement". People are different, dosages are different, lots of things are different from one case to another.

I still haven't heard one compelling argument about how Brady could have possible known his sudden and abrupt improvement would not continue unless he thought it was due to things that he would not continue doing. Now, I agree that it might not have been as black-and-white as being on/off roids... it might have been about different versions of roids or different doses of roids or whatever. But whatever it was, it was under his control or else he could not have known that his power would suddenly revert to what it had been.

I gave you such an argument. One that makes far more sense than him deciding to do steroids for exactly one season.

[RShack]

Those guys generally saw multiple years of increased performance, not just one huge year in a sea of good ones. I'm not sure why you're bringing up Jones, because the list of players who were great for a while then crashed would be so long it would, well, crash this site.

You didn't ask for 1-year wonders. You asked for guys who demonstrated hugely different levels of performance. I gave you a short list, it could have been longer.

I gave you such an argument. One that makes far more sense than him deciding to do steroids for exactly one season.

No you didn't. You provided an argument, which is not the same thing as a compelling argument. Do you really think a player who gets better is gonna assume it's *not* because something started to click? Do you really think a competitive person is gonna *tell* people it's not him, it's just a freak thing? Why on earth would you think that?

It would be one thing if he told folks he couldn't promise to be like that every year. But that's not what he said. What he said was a lot closer to promising that he would be back to his normal, less-powerful self next year. Can you think of anybody else who said something like that? I can't. So, I don't see what about your argument is compelling. (Not trying to make you PO'd, just talking about the topic, that's all...)

[BobPhelan]

I think Andruw Jones is just a case of a player getting fat and lazy. Or being lazy and getting fat.