276 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

Blue Jays fire Greg Zaun for improper conduct.

 

Awkward holiday season in the Dempsey house.

[Mackus]

Conyers "retires".

[Nigel Tufnel]

Bill James wrote a little about this a while ago, in response to a reader question:

 

You recently tweeted "Scandals almost never arise from the invention of new evils. They are almost always--as this one is--the creation of new standards of conduct, a lower level of tolerance for corrupt behavior." I thought this captured this particular moment so well I've used it in a clinical setting to help patients with abuse histories process all this news.  This was so simple and profound - I might have expected it to have originated from the Talmud, the Tao Te Ching or some other book of wisdom.  Instead, I discover it's from New Bill James Historical Abstract in a section about Robin Yount, golf and Watergate - in the original form "Almost all scandals, I think, result not from the invention of new evils, but from the imposition of new ethical standards."  

So that's the citation I'm going with unless you tell me that you got that idea from somewhere else.   Thanks for the help at work!

Asked by: umbrellaman

 

Answered: 11/21/2017

 I am certain that other people must have realized that that was true before I did, and that other people must have written the same thing earlier.  

 

It actually originated, in my mind, with Richard Nixon and Watergate.   Nixon would say, about Watergate, that other Presidents before him had done similar things.  Johnson and Kennedy and Eisenhower and FDR had all done things LIKE what he did, but they got by with it. 

 

His complaint was more true than false--but it is not really a defense.  For one thing, Nixon took the less ethical practices of his predecessors AND EXPANDED THEM.  There is a line from a song that we sing in my church; New occassions teach new duties; time makes ancient good uncouth.  I think the song was written in the abolitionist era, as a way of saying that the ancient traditions of slavery are no longer acceptible in the present.   We have new occasions and new duties.  Without such a principle, it becomes impossible for the human race to make moral progress.  

 

And I believe in moral progress.   Many people my age and younger see the world as devolving into moral chaos.  You've got politicians butt-patting women who pose for a picture with them and Hollywood producers extorting sexual favors from attractive young women who want to work in the movies; My God, what is the world coming to?   But I'm pretty sure Hollywood producers have been extorting sexual favors from young actresses since the day Hollywood first made a movie.   When people organize to say "Enough of that", that's moral progress. 

 

But moral progress also depends upon forgiveness; I don't think we make progress, as a society, without new standards, but also without a new responsibility to forgive those who lived under a different ethical umbrella.  To acknowledge your monicker.  

[Mackus]

Really didn't expect to see Bill James in this thread

[DJ MC]

Really didn't expect to see Bill James in this thread

 

Unless he was being accused of harassment by Joe Morgan.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Well, all the work he did definitely screwed guys like Steve Garvey.

[The Epic]

Welp, actual Senators are calling for Franken to step down. Won't be long now. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

Welp, actual Senators are calling for Franken to step down. Won't be long now. 

With the moves of the RNC and Trump/Bannon going full throttle for Moore, the Dems have a real opportunity to take the moral high ground here. Conyers resigning/retiring yesterday, and now Franken, which should happen. Not to reignite that whole debate, but that's how it's shaped up. 

[mweb08]

With the moves of the RNC and Trump/Bannon going full throttle for Moore, the Dems have a real opportunity to take the moral high ground here. Conyers resigning/retiring yesterday, and now Franken, which should happen. Not to reignite that whole debate, but that' show it's shaped up. 

 

Which I completely agreed with during that debate.

 

I don't put as much weight on the picture as others did here, nor will I, but at this point I'm willing to change from I'd be happy if he did resign and that would be best for the Dems, to that's what he should do regardless of political implications.

[bnickle]

With the moves of the RNC and Trump/Bannon going full throttle for Moore, the Dems have a real opportunity to take the moral high ground here. Conyers resigning/retiring yesterday, and now Franken, which should happen. Not to reignite that whole debate, but that's how it's shaped up.

This is all this shit comes down from both sides. Playing games to try to gain the moral high ground when there is no moral high ground when this stuff happens. When someone fucks up call them on it and have the same expectations for "your side" as you'd have for the "other side".

[The Epic]

I still think the moral high ground debate is...weird. 

 

While I believe Franken should resign, I don't think this will be some huge shift that will cause independents and moderate conservatives to re-think their views and political leanings. I think it's just right vs wrong. Should someone who did that have public office? Should someone who did that RUN for public office? 

 

This shouldn't be hard. The moral high ground should be held by the public, who demands more. 

 

(I'm talking to nobody.)

[You Play to Win the Game]

I still think the moral high ground debate is...weird. 

 

While I believe Franken should resign, I don't think this will be some huge shift that will cause independents and moderate conservatives to re-think their views and political leanings. I think it's just right vs wrong. Should someone who did that have public office? Should someone who did that RUN for public office? 

 

This shouldn't be hard. The moral high ground should be held by the public, who demands more. 

 

(I'm talking to nobody.)

 

Agreed 100%, and with Nickel. It's ridiculous to politicize this, but alas, this is America. That said, you KNOW dems will be campaigning on being the party to reject molesters, etc. While Trump and Bannon are out stumping for Moore (well not Trump stumping yet, other than Twitter). Then there's Senator Flake ® who sent Moore's opponent a check for $100.00 with "Country over Party" in the memo line.

[The Epic]

Then there's Senator Flake ® who sent Moore's opponent a check for $100.00 with "Country over Party" in the memo line.

 

Don't even get me started on that. The Flake/Sasse spat on Twitter is so annoying and I want to punch them both. 

 

Democrats don't have to run on that. I think it's pretty clear that running on "vote for me because I'm not that guy" doesn't work so well. This shutdown will bear fruit, along with something to run on. 

[DuffMan]

Can we at least all agree that the former "Doctor" for the US Gymnastics team is a POS that needs to be put away for life?

[mweb08]

I still think the moral high ground debate is...weird. 

 

While I believe Franken should resign, I don't think this will be some huge shift that will cause independents and moderate conservatives to re-think their views and political leanings. I think it's just right vs wrong. Should someone who did that have public office? Should someone who did that RUN for public office? 

 

This shouldn't be hard. The moral high ground should be held by the public, who demands more. 

 

(I'm talking to nobody.)

 

It's not going to shift many people's views much, if at all, but it would help diminish a conveninet target for Conservatives to use on debate shows and in articles and such. 

[The Epic]

It's not going to shift many people's views much, if at all, but it would help diminish a conveninet target for Conservatives to use on debate shows and in articles and such. 

 

That's 100% fair. 

[KWebz]

Can we at least all agree that the former "Doctor" for the US Gymnastics team is a POS that needs to be put away for life?

Yes Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SportsGuy]

Can we at least all agree that the former "Doctor" for the US Gymnastics team is a POS that needs to be put away for life?

I don’t agree...I think he should be tortured and killed.

I don’t want my taxes to pay for that POs to be in jail until he dies.

[Mackus]

Franken resigns.

 

Or will "in the coming weeks".

[Mackus]

Can we at least all agree that the former "Doctor" for the US Gymnastics team is a POS that needs to be put away for life?

 

He got 60 years, which was the max sentence for what he was charged with.