18 replies to this topic

[Greg Pappas]

Why does Buck continue to bat such a terrible On-Base Percentage player -JJ Hardy- second in the lineup? It is baffling and frustrating watching as Hardy ruins opportunity after opportunity to move a runner over by popping up or striking out. I've brought this up before... but still, no change.

Am I missing something here?

Manny Machado .417
Nate McLouth .391
Omar Quintanilla.352
Nick Markakis .349
Adam Jones .343
Mark Reynolds .327
Wilson Betemit .327
Matt Wieters .323
Chris Davis .302
Robert Andino .291
J.J. Hardy .273

[Adam Wolff]

Nope..you aren't missing anything Greg. It's baffling.

Literally one of the worst options for the 2 hole. It doesn't make any sense to me and as I've said before, he's the only guy who doesn't move in the lineup. Buck has been very willing to shuffle every single other spot, but Hardy is entrenched as the 2 man. It's idiotic.

[BobPhelan]

I'd like to see something like this...

Markakis RF
Hoes LF
Wieters C
Jones CF
Davis/Reynolds 1B
Reynolds/Betemit DH
Hardy SS
Machado 3B
Quintanilla 2B

Even if you don't bring Hoes up, drop Hardy down.

[SportsGuy]

If you believe in lineup values, Hardy is baiting in one of the top 3 most important spots in the lineup.

Nick and Jones are our 2 best hitters and they are each in 2 of the top 3 most important spots.

So, who is the third best hitter on the team?

[BobPhelan]

So, who is the third best hitter on the team?

Wieters, unless hes in one of those ice cold stretches. If he is, then Betemit against RHP? Reynolds takes alot of pitches...

[Adam Wolff]

Wieters, unless hes in one of those ice cold stretches. If he is, then Betemit against RHP? Reynolds takes alot of pitches...

Yeah I'd agree with that. Really, anyone would be a better option. You could go with the hot bat, even. Just not Hardy.

[Thyrl]

I don't disagree with the values placed on lineup spots as SG pointed out, but I know that some managers look at the 2 as a spot to jump start a bat that's under-performing. Ozzie Guillen is one that I know of for sure but there are others too. Robin Ventura seems to have done it with Youklis but I can't say it's his philosophy necessarily.

First, it's predicated on having a traditional 1,3 & 4 which the Orioles don't. But if your 1-hitter gets on often and is a threat to steal, with a credible 3 & 4 behind him the 2nd hitter should get lots of fastballs and lots of strikes. Under those circumstances a bat like Reynolds' could really flourish.

Before they put Markakis there I suggested that the Orioles might consider leading Jones off. Not only is he near tops on the team in OBP, but he's also your best bet to steal a base.

I suggested Jones, Reynolds, Wieters, Davis vs. lefties
& Jones, Markakis, Davis, Betemit vs righties
(these were based on splits accumulated before the All-Star break)

Markakis splits vs. lefties have caught up substantially since he's been leading off, and aside from slugging he's pretty even from both sides on 3 year sample. Still if Nick were more of a threat to steal, you could easily stick a bat like Reynolds at 2 and expect big #'s (especially vs. lefties)

[SportsGuy]

I don't disagree with the values placed on lineup spots as SG pointed out, but I know that some managers look at the 2 as a spot to jump start a bat that's under-performing. Ozzie Guillen is one that I know of for sure but there are others too. Robin Ventura seems to have done it with Youklis but I can't say it's his philosophy necessarily.

First, it's predicated on having a traditional 1,3 & 4 which the Orioles don't. But if your 1-hitter gets on often and is a threat to steal, with a credible 3 & 4 behind him the 2nd hitter should get lots of fastballs and lots of strikes. Under those circumstances a bat like Reynolds' could really flourish.

Before they put Markakis there I suggested that the Orioles might consider leading Jones off. Not only is he near tops on the team in OBP, but he's also your best bet to steal a base.

I suggested Jones, Reynolds, Wieters, Davis vs. lefties
& Jones, Markakis, Davis, Betemit vs righties
(these were based on splits accumulated before the All-Star break)

Markakis splits vs. lefties have caught up substantially since he's been leading off, and aside from slugging he's pretty even from both sides on 3 year sample. Still if Nick were more of a threat to steal, you could easily stick a bat like Reynolds at 2 and expect big #'s (especially vs. lefties)

Buck had Hardy batting second last year, so the jump start theory doesn't work in this case.

Buck is just making a poor decision.

[bnickle]

I like McClouth in there vs RHP. Vs RHP Ilke the following

Nick
McLouth
Adam
Wieters
Betemit
Hardy
Davis
Quintinilla
Manny



Vs LHP I would go
Nick
Hardy
Adam
Wieters
Reynolds
McClouth/Ford
Manny
Davis
Andino




Note - I think Manny might very well be best to take Hardy's spots in both these lineups,6th vs RHP and 2nd vs LHP, but Buck just isn't going to put that much pressure on him this soon.

[Mike B]

Too quick for Manny, but for right now maybe Mclouth and Ford.

[SportsGuy]

My lineup for the immediate future:

Markakis
Machado
Wieters
Jones
Reynolds
Hardy
Davis
McLouth/Ford
Andino/Quint

I don't buy the idea that we would be putting pressure on Machado batting him second.

[Mackus]

We frankly don't have any real viable options in the #2 hole right now, unless Machado becomes that option.

I do agree that Hardy is about the worst option possible considering how bad he's been offensively this year. I think when he's hot he is a fine option for the #2 spot, but he's only been hot for about 2 weeks this season. He needs to be down around 6 or 7, IMO.

I don't think Hardy in the #2 spot is costing us multiple wins, especially not over the short term, but I do think it would be an easy switch to make and that there isn't any good reason to continue batting him there. If you don't wanna move Machado up this fast, which I think is understandable for the short term but may prove to be needless, then I would try Quintanilla there against RHP and Reynolds there against LHP.

vLHP: RF Markakis, 1B Reynolds, C Wieters, CF Jones, DH Davis, SS Hardy, 3B Machado, LF Ford, 2B Andino
vRHP: RF Markakis, 2B Quintanilla, C Wieters, CF Jones, 1B Betemit, DH Davis, SS Hardy, 3B Machado, LF McClouth

I think it's possible that Machado proves that he's capable of batting 2nd this early (I'd give him another week or so down in the order though) and then that solves a lot of the issues.

[bnickle]

I hate the thought Reynolds in the #2 hole. I would lead him off and bat Nick 2nd before I would hit him 2nd.

[Mackus]

I hate the thought Reynolds in the #2 hole. I would lead him off and bat Nick 2nd before I would hit him 2nd.

Are those things really that different?

Reynolds against LHP has a 266/402/430 slash line this year (though it's under 100 PAs). Was 208/327/454 last year and 245/373/504 for his career.

I think he's probably the best option against LHP, although Hardy's numbers haven't been as bad against south paws (272/341/421).

[bnickle]

I don't want him batting leadoff either just saying #1 is the lesser of two evils. Not to go too old school here but I prefer #2 guys that can handle the bat well and generally make contact. Obviously, OBP is important too but Reynolds K's way too much for me in that spot. I do think Manny is prob the best option but I know Buck isn't going to put him there anytime soon.

[Mackus]

I don't want him batting leadoff either just saying #1 is the lesser of two evils. Not to go too old school here but I prefer #2 guys that can handle the bat well and generally make contact. Obviously, OBP is important too but Reynolds K's way too much for me in that spot. I do think Manny is prob the best option but I know Buck isn't going to put him there anytime soon.

I think the old school approach is pretty close to a moot point for this team. We never hit and run and very rarely try to sac bunt, especially early in games. Personally I like that, as I think "small ball", particularly early in games, is a great way to limit your offense. Although in this new run environment, perhaps there is more benefit to giving yourself a greater chance of scoring one run at the expense of your chances of scoring multiple runs.

I do agree completely that Reynolds is a very non-traditional option in the #2 spot. If you want to leave JJ there against lefties, since even with his struggles this year he's hitting them decently enough, I've got no problems with that.

[LanceRinker]

I don't disagree with the values placed on lineup spots as SG pointed out, but I know that some managers look at the 2 as a spot to jump start a bat that's under-performing. Ozzie Guillen is one that I know of for sure but there are others too. Robin Ventura seems to have done it with Youklis but I can't say it's his philosophy necessarily.

First, it's predicated on having a traditional 1,3 & 4 which the Orioles don't. But if your 1-hitter gets on often and is a threat to steal, with a credible 3 & 4 behind him the 2nd hitter should get lots of fastballs and lots of strikes. Under those circumstances a bat like Reynolds' could really flourish.

Before they put Markakis there I suggested that the Orioles might consider leading Jones off. Not only is he near tops on the team in OBP, but he's also your best bet to steal a base.

I suggested Jones, Reynolds, Wieters, Davis vs. lefties
& Jones, Markakis, Davis, Betemit vs righties
(these were based on splits accumulated before the All-Star break)

Markakis splits vs. lefties have caught up substantially since he's been leading off, and aside from slugging he's pretty even from both sides on 3 year sample. Still if Nick were more of a threat to steal, you could easily stick a bat like Reynolds at 2 and expect big #'s (especially vs. lefties)

I've been wishing Buck would insert Reynolds in the number two spot in the lineup for months now. I think Reynolds would flourish there.

[Adam Wolff]

Seems to me we all at least have a consensus that someone other than Hardy should be there. Just not sure why Buck doesn't see it. I know it is very unlikely, but I'd love to see what Machado could do in there.

[Oriole85]

Seems to me we all at least have a consensus that someone other than Hardy should be there. Just not sure why Buck doesn't see it. I know it is very unlikely, but I'd love to see what Machado could do in there.

I could go for this eventually, just not yet.