597 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

It's the lack of pass rush. I think teams still get way too many clean looks because we don't generate enough pressure,

 

It's also the style of defense we play. We play a lot of zone and keep things in front of us at times. 

Pass rush doesn't matter if a QB gets the ball out in less than 2 seconds.  

[Mackus]

If Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman got hurt the secondary in Seattle wouldn't be as good either. 

 

No, of course not, but their secondary may not be a liability if those guys go down, it just might be not as good. Whatever the case with the Seattle defense, I think we've shown pretty clearly that the secondary can't sustain decent play whenever we have primary guys missing.  Maybe that changes as some young guys step up and overtake the veterans who had been our depth previously, but so far that's been the trend.  Next man up failed us in the secondary early on this year.  Hopefully guys stay healthy and we won't need to find out if it's improved here on forward.

[JordanKough]

I'd be interested to see time of hold long guys are holding the ball. I think teams are holding it a long time against us. 

I would call our pass rush below average up to this point. We've forced teams to throw, often in 2nd and 3rd and long. A better rush would yield more sacks.

 

I'm hoping Doom can come back and help a lot here. Though we still just rush 4 a lot. Despite not having the talent there, that doesn't help a ton either. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

Good point about the depth. Seems like as soon as Smith or Mosley has left the field, the flood gates open up on defense. I know it seems i'm cowering, but maybe I'm just remembering the times we got eaten alive a lot better than the times we played well. To me, the defense is solid, but it's nowhere near a defense I'd fear as an opposing team.

[JordanKough]

It's hard to argue against a hypothetical injury that hasn't happened being the reason we can't say our current team is above average. For any team in any secondary (IMO). If that's what it takes to defend the position of the Ravens secondary / passing defense as being above average, you guys certainly won't be convinced...

[You Play to Win the Game]

Pretty funny how word choice can have a trickle down effect.

 

This isn't a defense to be feared.

 

There. Can I still be a Ravens fan?

[JordanKough]

No one said fear? Just that this group in comparison to a very pedestrian NFL this year, is above that average. 

 

But hey...whatever you want to say. The Ravens defense hasn't been feared since like...2010, IMO. Maybe earlier. If that's the point your driving at here, we agree. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

No one said fear? Just that this group in comparison to a very pedestrian NFL this year, is above that average. 

 

But hey...whatever you want to say. The Ravens defense hasn't been feared since like...2010, IMO. Maybe earlier. If that's the point your driving at here, we agree. 

 

I mean that I started this whole thing by saying that "Rob and others overrate our defense." When if I had said, our defense isn't anything special, Dallas isn't afraid of them, no one bats an eye probably.

 

But hey, thanks for "educating" me. Now I can be a better fan hopefully. 

[JordanKough]

Pretty sure I wasn't trying to educate you either? Sorry if I came off that way. 

 

I'm in the "others", that doesn't think this defense is overrated. But come on, don't you think saying we're saying the Ravens defense is feared is over the line. 

 

I even said I agree wtih you that they aren't feared. But I do think in this NFL environment we're above average, you've said you think we're below average. That's a fairly stark difference that just isn't small semantics. 

 

I don't think you're right that Dallas is shrugging off our run defense. I think Dallas is significantly game planning this week for our run defense and what they'll need to do if we do manage to make them one dimensional. And they aren't just skating by.

 

If they aren't taking us seriously, then my earlier prediction of a trap game for Dallas could easily come true. 

[SportsGuy]

I mean that I started this whole thing by saying that "Rob and others overrate our defense." When if I had said, our defense isn't anything special, Dallas isn't afraid of them, no one bats an eye probably.

 

But hey, thanks for "educating" me. Now I can be a better fan hopefully. 

I guess it depends on how you define that.  Historically?  No.

 

For this season, compared to the rest of the league?  Yes it is.

 

Now, here is where I think you may be thinking about the defense and where my issue lies...end of half and especially, end of games.  They seem to have wilted some in those situations.  Part of that is coaching..going to the prevent, putting them back on their heels, etc...I can understand that stuff sticking out in ones mind and I agree its something to be worried about.  But I don't think that reflects on the defense as much as the style of defense Pees puts them in at that time.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Oh I didn't mean to say that you guys are saying the defense IS feared, I'm just saying it ISN'T. That's all. Basically, this isn't a big deal or anything to get worked up about.

 

And yes, while Dallas is looking at our Run D closely this week, I'm sure, I guarantee you they have identified several ways to attack our secondary. That's every team's game plan against us, for the most part. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I guess it depends on how you define that.  Historically?  No.

 

For this season, compared to the rest of the league?  Yes it is.

 

Now, here is where I think you may be thinking about the defense and where my issue lies...end of half and especially, end of games.  They seem to have wilted some in those situations.  Part of that is coaching..going to the prevent, putting them back on their heels, etc...I can understand that stuff sticking out in ones mind and I agree its something to be worried about.  But I don't think that reflects on the defense as much as the style of defense Pees puts them in at that time.

It's not just end of half/games but when teams are trailing big and have to throw... when teams abandon the run, we don't do well defensively.

[SportsGuy]

It's not just end of half/games but when teams are trailing big and have to throw... when teams abandon the run, we don't do well defensively.

Can you show me the defense that doesn't give up a lot of yardage in that situation?

[You Play to Win the Game]

Can you show me the defense that doesn't give up a lot of yardage in that situation?

No, but there's plenty of outlets that can.

 

We'll see where this ends up at the end of the year I guess. Although if they aren't a "special" defense by the end of the year, you'll just hedge away at the reasons why. 

[SportsGuy]

No, but there's plenty of outlets that can.

 

We'll see where this ends up at the end of the year I guess. Although if they aren't a "special" defense by the end of the year, you'll just hedge away at the reasons why. 

LOL..Good comeback from someone who has come into this thread with literally not one piece of intelligent info to actually back up your poor assertions.

BTW, teams have abandoned the run vs us all year (except the Jets) and the Ravens pass defense is still rated highly by all the metrics...but again, I don't want you to allow facts to get in the way of your poor thoughts here.  

[JordanKough]

If Smith / Young / Mosley remain healthy, I'll be willing to stake that this will be a top 5 defense in yards at the end of the year period. 

 

No hedge...

 

Also, if Doom comes back and can actually rush the passer with Suggs...I'd say this defense will not only finish top 5, but be one that is pretty menacing in games. Even against top offenses like NEP. 

 

I still think Doom could be the x-factor to our season. Especially with Suggs playing like a man possessed. Now will he come back...who knows...probably not. But it could be a difference maker in passing situations, especially with our run defense playing at such a high level. 

[SportsGuy]

If Smith / Young / Mosley remain healthy, I'll be willing to stake that this will be a top 5 defense in yards at the end of the year period. 

 

No hedge...

 

Also, if Doom comes back and can actually rush the passer with Suggs...I'd say this defense will not only finish top 5, but be one that is pretty menacing in games. Even against top offenses like NEP. 

 

I still think Doom could be the x-factor to our season. Especially with Suggs playing like a man possessed. Now will he come back...who knows...probably not. But it could be a difference maker in passing situations, especially with our run defense playing at such a high level. 

Yep...its all about the health of the secondary.  They can't afford to have Smith go down,,,and probably not Weddle either.

 

I would be surprised if Doom makes any impact this year...In fact, I think its more likely he ends up on IR than he ends up being an impact player.  Hope I am wrong because he would be huge for this defense.

[JordanKough]

Right and I tend to think you count on health and it's unlucky if you don't have it. The Ravens have already sustained a series of injuries for the year. So it feels like there might be some luck involved in us staying healthy for the next 7 games. Also nice to be coming off a 10-day mini bye for this game too. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

LOL..Good comeback from someone who has come into this thread with literally not one piece of intelligent info to actually back up your poor assertions.

BTW, teams have abandoned the run vs us all year (except the Jets) and the Ravens pass defense is still rated highly by all the metrics...but again, I don't want you to allow facts to get in the way of your poor thoughts here.  

 

You act like football is like baseball with metrics/stats. It's not. I've watched every snap. This defense is decent at best. 

 

I know that because you have all the stats sites bookmarked and can read well that you're the "intelligence authority" on sports, but really you just look like an ass. I'm allowed to have my opinion. Get over it.

[SportsGuy]

You act like football is like baseball with metrics/stats. It's not. I've watched every snap. This defense is decent at best. 

 

I know that because you have all the stats sites bookmarked and can read well that you're the "intelligence authority" on sports, but really you just look like an ass. I'm allowed to have my opinion. Get over it.

But if you don't know what you are watching, who cares?

 

And I am not acting like anything.

 

I am providing you with factual evidence.  I briefly mentioned DVOA but I haven't talked about any other advanced stat.  I am talking about what teams have done and where the teams are ranked.  They haven't played soft offenses.  They haven't given up yards, teams aren't running on them, the pass defense has been good all year and, despite having injuries on the defense, they are top 10 in points allowed too.

 

I don't know what else you want...but hey, your "eye test" is clearly better than what everyone else is seeing, both locally and nationally.  The #1 defense ranking in all of the NFL is meaningless.  YOU only see decent, so that's the deciding vote!