Which would you prefer to see dealt?
#1
Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:18 AM
#2
Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:28 AM
#3
Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:40 AM
#4
Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:43 AM
Part of this decision is that I think a "seller" would covet the draft pick more than Avery, but I could be wrong.
#5
Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:04 PM
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax..."
-Walter Sobchak
#6
Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:37 PM
The flip side is you basically know what Avery is, and the pick remains a question, with possibly greater upside.
#7
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:14 AM
Give the new regime a chance, not saying they'll be good but I wouldn't rush to judgment until they get more time.I don't trust us to draft wisely. We've got too long a history of blown picks. I keep Avery and hope for the best.
#8
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:16 AM
I don't trust us to draft wisely. We've got too long a history of blown picks. I keep Avery and hope for the best.
I think our problem has been much more around Player Development than it has been the drafting itself. I thought Jordan was fine (minu a few blunders). I think Duq is making this a priority (finally), and so I'm not sure the above stance is the right one to have at this time, JMO.
#9
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:22 AM
I think our problem has been much more around Player Development than it has been the drafting itself. I thought Jordan was fine (minu a few blunders). I think Duq is making this a priority (finally), and so I'm not sure the above stance is the right one to have at this time, JMO.
Yeah but you have to ask, if Jordan really was fine, how did he miss on so many guys. I know a lot of teams miss on players that fall, but it's also my view that the later first round teams are the ones with the better GM/SD teams and don't miss where the worse teams are either scared or just not as good and miss guys all the time.
Trout and Trumbo, Gary Sanchez come to mind. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I feel like more of those 20-32 picks have been panning out than the early picks recently.
#10
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:26 AM
#11
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:28 AM
Yeah but you have to ask, if Jordan really was fine, how did he miss on so many guys. I know a lot of teams miss on players that fall, but it's also my view that the later first round teams are the ones with the better GM/SD teams and don't miss where the worse teams are either scared or just not as good and miss guys all the time.
Trout and Trumbo, Gary Sanchez come to mind. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I feel like more of those 20-32 picks have been panning out than the early picks recently.
Did he miss, or did his players come into our system and not receive the appropriate coaching to develop properly?
#12
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:32 AM
He missed.Did he miss, or did his players come into our system and not receive the appropriate coaching to develop properly?
We may not have a great system, but Jordan wasn't very good at finding talent, IMO. He's got a couple nice later round gems - Arrieta, Britton, Hernandez - but beyond the first round very few of his players have made it. And even in the first round he screwed up pretty much every time there wasn't an obvious choice (I consider Wieters, Matusz, Machado, and Bundy to be obvious choices who were considered to be the top player at that point in the draft, Bundy may be the one exception).
#13
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:35 AM
Did he miss, or did his players come into our system and not receive the appropriate coaching to develop properly?
Mackus hit it I think. He was too obsessed with Juco guys, and guys recovering from injuries. Aside from the slam dunk picks, his % wasn't very good.
Comparison's sake: The Yankees would have taken Trout if they were picking in the top 10. Good scouting.
#14
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:36 AM
He missed.
We may not have a great system, but Jordan wasn't very good at finding talent, IMO. He's got a couple nice later round gems - Arrieta, Britton, Hernandez - but beyond the first round very few of his players have made it. And even in the first round he screwed up pretty much every time there wasn't an obvious choice (I consider Wieters, Matusz, Machado, and Bundy to be obvious choices who were considered to be the top player at that point in the draft, Bundy may be the one exception).
Okay, yes, he missed some, but it's not that black and white.
How can you not put any of this on the D system when even the obvious choices, or very talented arms have been bad? It's definitely been a combination of both.
AS - again, I think his hit % wasn't very good because we didn't properly develop our talent.
I'm no Jordan apologist, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's fair to put that all on him - it was definitely a combination of both.
#15
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:37 AM
He also loved athletes and felt he could turn them into baseball players.Mackus hit it I think. He was too obsessed with Juco guys, and guys recovering from injuries. Aside from the slam dunk picks, his % wasn't very good.
Comparison's sake: The Yankees would have taken Trout if they were picking in the top 10. Good scouting.
His strategy was usually pretty poor IMO.
As his time went on, I couldn't wait for him to get out.
He was a good negotiator and had a good idea of what the players would want though..I will give him that.
#16
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:42 AM
Again no confidence in the new regime? I know Stockstill is still there, but a new GM/Scouting Director.With the way we draft and develop, deal the draft pick. Avery could be worth something with consistent playing time.
#17
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:43 AM
That's the conclusion I've come too. It's just very hard to say IMO definitely which one it is.I'm no Jordan apologist, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's fair to put that all on him - it was definitely a combination of both.
#18
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:46 AM
So just based on that one move, the Yankees have a good scouting department?Comparison's sake: The Yankees would have taken Trout if they were picking in the top 10. Good scouting.
#19
Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:57 AM
That's the conclusion I've come too. It's just very hard to say IMO definitely which one it is.
Yeah, I agree - I think it's a combinaion of both. I don't think I should have said "Jordan was fine" in my initial post. I was a little more definitively hinting at the PDev being the issue rather than Jordan. I think in fairness, it was most likely both.
#20
Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:04 AM
You're absolutely right here and that's not a negligible talent. It's a major asset to a scouting department. I'm not sure I'd want him running my amateur draft (it'll be real interesting to see how he does in Philly with a different development team), but I would absolutely love to have him in a role as head negotiator or advising in the planning stages as to what he expects each player would ultimately sign for. He was an artist at that aspect of the job, which is certainly important, and perhaps moreso now that there is a cap.He was a good negotiator and had a good idea of what the players would want though..I will give him that.
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