125 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

I know Weber and others will think I'm just trolling but if you swap Kobe in place of LBJ for all of LBJs final appearances I think Kobe has at least the 2 titles James has. Maybe more. However, swap LBJ into the Finals appearances Kobe has been in and I'm very skeptical LBJ has 5. I think he likely would have won from '00-02 with Shaq but doubt he gets two more.

I wish it were trolling. Lebron probably wins more than 3 titles with Shaq and very likely coexists with him much better and therfore longer. I also don't see any reason to think he wins less with those later Lakers teams. Kobe had a much better supporting cast than LeBron at that same time. Kobe wouldn't have had that Cavs team even in contention.

[SBTarheel]

Weird, we were just talking about this in the office. I'll watch both, but more of Kobe for sure...

 

 

hopefully I'll be able to catch Kobe coming out of the game to an ovation and the Warriors closing out the 73rd win. 

 

I'm sure after the game, Harrison Barnes and James McAdoo will get all the praise they deserve for leading the dubs to the record.

[bnickle]

I wish it were trolling. Lebron probably wins more than 3 titles with Shaq and very likely coexists with him much better and therfore longer. I also don't see any reason to think he wins less with those later Lakers teams. Kobe had a much better supporting cast than LeBron at that same time. Kobe wouldn't have had that Cavs team even in contention.

Kobe absolutely would have won 2 in Miami. Maybe 3. You're assertion that LBJ wins more with Shaq doesn't have much merit. For one, it wasn't just that Shaq and Kobe didn't get along. Shaq would get lazy at times. There is also enough proof at this point that James has drama with other high profile players on his team's. So assuming that Shaq wouldn't get upset with him or vice versa is probably incorrect.

[mweb08]

Kobe absolutely would have won 2 in Miami. Maybe 3. You're assertion that LBJ wins more with Shaq doesn't have much merit. For one, it wasn't just that Shaq and Kobe didn't get along. Shaq would get lazy at times. There is also enough proof at this point that James has drama with other high profile players on his team's. So assuming that Shaq wouldn't get upset with him or vice versa is probably incorrect.

 

Kobe would have possibly won 2 in Miami, doubtful he would have won more. Him and Wade would not have worked as well as LeBron and Wade. Kobe doesn't likely play to LeBron's level against the Spurs either, or just in general other than the Mavs series, which is the biggest knock on LeBron's career..

 

Of course it has merit. Yeah, obviously there's no proof. There's no proof in any of this. But it would have been hard to be much worse than Shaq and Kobe's relationship and there's good reason to think it would have been better. LeBron's drama with teammates pales in comparison to Kobe's drama with Shaq. LeBron is considered the much better teammate. LeBron's game would also mesh better with Shaq since he wasn't a selfish player while Kobe was very selfish.

 

Another key point is that LeBron became a very good to great player quicker than did Kobe, therefore extending the championship window of the Shaq Lakers.

[mweb08]

Yeah, I agree with the counting rings argument... doesn't mean much to me.

In any discussion of the best players ever, Kobe belongs in the mix somewhere. Everyone will agree on that, with some discussion of just how high he goes.

 

For me, there were people with far less talent (and admittedly less results) than Kobe that I enjoyed watching play more than him. No specifics here, more about Kobe vs. other names. Just for the most part, when Kobe was on, it was often easy for me to watch something else.  Sure there were lots of great moments I missed.

 

 

But here we are at the end of his career...  the last game... and for someone that never had to watch him in his prime, it's an easy decision to watch the Warriors.  Style of play wise, would still be true for me even without GS going for 73.   I'm more interested in Cavs / Pistons than I am in Kobe tonight.

 

You loved watching MJ right? 

[BSLChrisStoner]

You loved watching MJ right? 

 

I did... and you are going to say, well Kobe was similar in many regards... so why didn't I enjoy watching him?

What can I say... I just didn't.

[mweb08]

I did... and you are going to say, well Kobe was similar in many regards... so why didn't I enjoy watching him?

What can I say... I just didn't.

 

Yeah, probably no player more similar to MJ than Kobe. 

 

Do you think you maybe didn't like Kobe because of that comparison since you loved Jordan and you didn't think anyone should challenge his throne so to speak in such a direct way.

[bnickle]

I didn't particularly like Kobe, but I loved and respected who he was on the court. If LBJ had Kobes mindset. If he were an alpha like Kobe, he would have a few more titles.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Yeah, probably no player more similar to MJ than Kobe. 

 

Do you think you maybe didn't like Kobe because of that comparison since you loved Jordan and you didn't think anyone should challenge his throne so to speak in such a direct way.

 

Probably legitimate to an extent.  I love sports obviously, but never been big with celebrity / hero worship.  Jordan (and Bo Jackson) were the two biggest examples of players I just held at another level.

So, where I think your comment is accurate... is that I definitely got tired of all of the MJ / Kobe discussions over the years. Regardless of the obvious similarities, and Kobe's own obvious greatness.

 

That said, I don't think I was ever a Kobe hater...  just wasn't a fan.

[SBTarheel]

I didn't particularly like Kobe, but I loved and respected who he was on the court. If LBJ had Kobes mindset. If he were an alpha like Kobe, he would have a few more titles.

No doubt on your last statement. 

 

Been listening to Kobe stuff the last few days, and some are saying he was never the "team guy" that Bird, Magic, and LeBron are/were, but those guys, especially LeBron lacked the "MF'er" mentality that Kobe and Jordan had. 

[Mike in STL]

Is it a west coast bias with all the non-Kobe fans?

[mweb08]

I didn't particularly like Kobe, but I loved and respected who he was on the court. If LBJ had Kobes mindset. If he were an alpha like Kobe, he would have a few more titles.

 

Nope. If he played as selfishly as Kobe, he wouldn't have been as good. 

 

There is no way Kobe was good enough to a title with any of LeBron's Cleveland teams. No way he would have beat the Spurs two years ago. Mavs is the series that LeBron left on the table and maybe Kobe wins that one, but you have to consider that he just wasn't as good as LeBron nor would he have fit as well with Wade, so he may not have even gotten the Heat to that point or won the other titles.

[mweb08]

No doubt on your last statement.

Been listening to Kobe stuff the last few days, and some are saying he was never the "team guy" that Bird, Magic, and LeBron are/were, but those guys, especially LeBron lacked the "MF'er" mentality that Kobe and Jordan had.

No doubt on his last statement? Lol. No doubt that it's wrong.

He has shown that mentality, but I;d agree that he didn't have it all the time. He's more like Magic in that regard, and he did alright for himself.

Sometimes that mentality hurt Kobe as well. See Pistons series. See 6-24. See relationship with Shaq. See Phil's book.

[mweb08]

Is it a west coast bias with all the non-Kobe fans?

 

Maybe, but he's a super polarizing athlete. Lot's of debate about his game, his personality, the Shaq-Kobe fued, and then there was the situation in Colorado.

[mweb08]

Apparently you get this if you're sitting courtside.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Starting to hit home that this is it.

Bittersweet.

[mweb08]

Kobe...Kobe...Kobe

Nice tribute.

[SportsGuy]

Nope. If he played as selfishly as Kobe, he wouldn't have been as good.

There is no way Kobe was good enough to a title with any of LeBron's Cleveland teams. No way he would have beat the Spurs two years ago. Mavs is the series that LeBron left on the table and maybe Kobe wins that one, but you have to consider that he just wasn't as good as LeBron nor would he have fit as well with Wade, so he may not have even gotten the Heat to that point or won the other titles.

I think there are 2 sides to this.

I think LBJ makes players better on the court...I think a guy like Kobe makes them better between the ears.

I think LeBrons teams would have been teams Kobe would have struggled with. But if those teams were Kobe led teams, I think the mindset and personality of those teams would be different.

[mweb08]

Nope. If he played as selfishly as Kobe, he wouldn't have been as good.


There is no way Kobe was good enough to a title with any of LeBron's Cleveland teams. No way he would have beat the Spurs two years ago. Mavs is the series that LeBron left on the table and maybe Kobe wins that one, but you have to consider that he just wasn't as good as LeBron nor would he have fit as well with Wade, so he may not have even gotten the Heat to that point or won the other titles.

I think there are 2 sides to this.


I think LBJ makes players better on the court...I think a guy like Kobe makes them better between the ears.


I think LeBrons teams would have been teams Kobe would have struggled with. But if those teams were Kobe led teams, I think the mindset and personality of those teams would be different.

I don't think Kobe makes guys better between the ears compared to LeBron. He's very smart and I think it's good in that regard, but so is LeBron.

[mweb08]

Hi Vanessa