51 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'm trying to remember - why did the city think it was a good idea to delay when a 90 year old guy was offering to pay?

City couldn't raise all of the public $ needed, and were asking from help from the State...     but yeah, that was a great opportunity for everyone.


Oh well, in the here and now, you need the convention center expansion.  Figure out how to get it done.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Looks like the Sun updated the article to say that a new arena is not recommended.

 

http://www.baltimore...0706-story.html

[BSLChrisStoner]

Looks like the Sun updated the article to say that a new arena is not recommended.

 

http://www.baltimore...0706-story.html

Taking 4-6 years to build a combined space in that footprint might not be feasible, but not coming up with a solution to replace the Arena is just sad.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Balt Sun: Baltimore officials build case for convention center expansion as another big convention leaves
http://www.baltimore...0823-story.html

[NewMarketSean]

Minor league city that’s going backwards.

[mweb08]

There's several issues more important than this.

[NewMarketSean]

There's several issues more important than this.

No doubt. But one hand washes the other.

[mweb08]

No doubt. But one hand washes the other.

Eh, not very concerned about this issue and I don't think this would lead to all that much help for most of the bigger issues.

[Nigel Tufnel]

In theory, the convention center is a money maker, and would make it easier to do the other things.  At least, that's what the politicians are going to say.

[NewMarketSean]

I want to see the city thriving in all areas. Losing conventions and failing to expand/maintain the convention center space doesn't help the city to thrive. This may not affect things like schools, poverty and crime but it certainly doesn't help improve those issues. I don't see this city thriving in many areas.

[mweb08]

The city does well in plenty of areas for me, an actual resident. Having conventions outgrow our convention center and then generally replaced by smaller conventions doesn't much bother me. This is also a super weird thing to have much civic pride in IMO. So if they expand the convention center, should I respond to people who bring up the poverty and murder rate with, "but have you seen our convention center?"

[BSLChrisStoner]

Has zippy to with civic pride imo.

Mike, you and I would likely agree there are bigger issues.. but takes revenue to address those issues.

Attracting larger conventions and the corresponding revenue that brings, provides additional resources to address some of the issues you would like to see addressed.

There is a reason why convention space is such a priority for cities.

[Mike in STL]

As long as corrupt governments look out for themselves and not the people, a convention center, or a casino, or an indy car race, or a new arena, any money maker you can think of won't help the city thrive if the funds make the rich get richer and make more and more people move out to the counties. 

[Mike in STL]

I'd like to see more attractions come to the city. Brings more people to the city. But you know the money won't go where it should.Maybe it doesn't mean you shouldn't expand the convention center. Maybe the bigger issue is holding government accountable.

[mweb08]

Has zippy to with civic pride imo.

Mike, you and I would likely agree there are bigger issues.. but takes revenue to address those issues.

Attracting larger conventions and the corresponding revenue that brings, provides additional resources to address some of the issues you would like to see addressed.

There is a reason why convention space is such a priority for cities.

I just don't like investing a ton of money into it given the opportunity cost. I don't think whatever profit they might see from this, which would take time to see, would really end up making a big difference in things I care more about.

When that rich guy was willing to put a lot of his own money into the project, it made a lot more sense.

As for civic pride, my comment was responding to Sean.

[mweb08]

The problems I care most about are extremely difficult to fix, and not because local politicians are corrupt or don't care or whatever. Rather, they're primarily due to the historical factors that caused these issues and a lack of enough action to positively address them in the past (and at times efforts to purposefully make them worse),the problems have become so overwhelming that without a truly massive effort which would require more state and federal help, most city actions amount to patching holes on a sinking ship.

[Mike in STL]

The problems I care most about are extremely difficult to fix, and not because local politicians are corrupt or don't care or whatever. Rather, they're primarily due to the historical factors that caused these issues and a lack of enough action to positively address them in the past (and at times efforts to purposefully make them worse),the problems have become so overwhelming that without a truly massive effort which would require more state and federal help, most city actions amount to patching holes on a sinking ship.

But the city got a boat load of state help some years ago and now have nothing to show for it. So when they asked for more, Hogan I think told them no. 

 

Not to mention the casino, a money printing machine for the city. Again, nothing to show for it.

 

If it's criminal justice system that needs reform (and it 100% does) that doesn't take money. That takes government.  But they don't care about that, on either side of the aisle, because they are all bought and paid for. So it takes money, when it shouldn't. 

[Mike in STL]

Sun Article from March 2018: http://www.baltimore...0321-story.html

 

“The city is not able to establish accurate balances of grant accounts,” city Auditor Audrey Askew told Baltimore’s spending panel Wednesday.

 

One possible result, Askew said: “The city could lose its much-needed [grant] funding.”

 

And that’s a lot of money. The city receives nearly $448 million in grants, or about 16 percent of its $2.8 billion budget.

 

City Council President Bernard C. “Jack” Young expressed outrage over the findings, arguing that grant management problems should have been fixed by now.

 

“I don’t understand how we can have a problem with grants,” said Young, a member of the spending board. “That has to really stop. If the grants don’t add up … the federal government is going to come and they’re going to want their money. We’re going to owe thousands, maybe millions of dollars.”

 

Baltimore’s problem with tracking grant money has existed for years. Several previous examinations have found that city officials have failed to properly account for millions of dollars in grant funds. Each time finance officials have pledged to fix the issues, as they did on Wednesday.

I'm sure councilman are really "outraged". Happening for years. But they are outraged...all the way to the bank, every time it happens. 

 

Jack Young is an idiot anyway. 

[mweb08]

But the city got a boat load of state help some years ago and now have nothing to show for it. So when they asked for more, Hogan I think told them no.

Not to mention the casino, a money printing machine for the city. Again, nothing to show for it.

If it's criminal justice system that needs reform (and it 100% does) that doesn't take money. That takes government. But they don't care about that, on either side of the aisle, because they are all bought and paid for. So it takes money, when it shouldn't.

I'm not sure if I was clear enough in terms of the sheer magnitude of the problem and how much would need to be invested if you feel that whatever state money you're referring to was supposed to lead to radical changes.

The city does have things to show for money earned and given to, but what they have to show amounts to patches on a sinking ship and things unrelated to the problems I'm referring to.

I think you are wrong about that last paragraph. Neither party if perfect, but to say they're the same on the matter is false.

Of course this is bordering on going too far on this board, but this topic is political, so it is what it is.

[Mike in STL]

I'm not sure if I was clear enough in terms of the sheer magnitude of the problem and how much would need to be invested if you feel that whatever state money you're referring to was supposed to lead to radical changes.

The city does have things to show for money earned and given to, but what they have to show amounts to patches on a sinking ship and things unrelated to the problems I'm referring to.

I think you are wrong about that last paragraph. Neither party if perfect, but to say they're the same on the matter is false.

Of course this is bordering on going too far on this board, but this topic is political, so it is what it is.

You really haven't mentioned the problem. So I don't know exactly what you're referring to. Maybe it's not for the board, so thats fine. 

 

I was going to say more, but it would be crossing the line. The short version, I think we both want a brighter future for all. I think the radical change needed isn't possible with the divisive, lying, greedy, money grubbing, non-transparent way we've been doing politics for a hundred years. I think it starts with trying to get people in office who EVERYONE can trust. And that's impossible with the current way we do things. If we could trust them, we would have no problem raising taxes, building new revenue streams if we knew the money would go where it needs to go to the people who need it most, so everyone wins. 

 

But it's currently a dog eat dog, us against them world. And will continue to be without complete overhaul.