494 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

You didn't wait at all. You had no problem making points against him and going off the information we had at hand, which was plenty to go off. Then when Posnanski made his opinions known, you totally changed your tune. Why can't you just admit that's why?

Can you prove that? Because that's not how I remember things at all.

[mweb08]

Can you prove that? Because that's not how I remember things at all.

Look back at the thread on the foxhole. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time looking up the times that Posnanski made comments, but you clearly changed your position after the link to his comments was posted (maybe by you, forget who posted it). I'm also not going to spend a bunch time proving what we both know to be true but you deny anyway.

[DJ MC]

Look back at the thread on the foxhole. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time looking up the times that Posnanski made comments, but you clearly changed your position after the link to his comments was posted (maybe by you, forget who posted it). I'm also not going to spend a bunch time proving what we both know to be true but you deny anyway.

One, I'm not welcome at that site.

Two, you're the one that brought it up. If you don't want to back up your statements (which you claim to have read recently), fine, but that's on you.

I remember what happened differently from you. If I am remembering things wrong, that's my own failure, but you somehow care enough to push the point but not enough to defend it.

[mweb08]

One, I'm not welcome at that site.

Two, you're the one that brought it up. If you don't want to back up your statements (which you claim to have read recently), fine, but that's on you.

I remember what happened differently from you. If I am remembering things wrong, that's my own failure, but you somehow care enough to push the point but not enough to defend it.

You can't even read the board?

It was also brought up at the time, btw.

[DJ MC]

http://espn.go.com/e... ... eform-2004

That same month, seven members of Penn State's board of trustees proposed sweeping reforms that would have strengthened the board's oversight power of Spanier and other campus leaders, including Paterno, according to documents obtained this week by "Outside the Lines." The group told the full board, "Decisions scrutinized with the benefit of hindsight need to withstand the test of being informed decisions."

But the board never took a vote on the proposal. Spanier and then-board chairwoman Cynthia Baldwin considered the reforms -- and, just as Paterno had done, said no, three current trustees say.

The revelation comes to light five days after former FBI director Louis Freeh's firm released its school-sanctioned report on what the university did to protect children in the wake of the arrest of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky and the board's Nov. 9 firing of Paterno and Spanier. The report, which blasted the board for poor governance and a failure of leadership, has led some trustees to say they now regret the good-governance proposal never was put to a full vote by the board's 32 members eight years ago.

Joel Myers, a longtime trustee, said the Freeh investigators told him that if the good-governance proposal had been adopted by the board back in 2004, "This (crisis) could have been avoided."

[bnickle]

BTerp you did start to change your tune midway through the thread. I just read the first 40 pages of it over there.


BTW... I had no clue who this Posnanski guy was before today. Whatever, I don't read. It's a flaw of mine. Anyway, if what he said when speaking to the Penn St class is true, then shame on him. I sure as hell wouldn't want to read a fluff piece on Paterno written by a biased writer.



Oh and back to the foxhole thread. You know I'm fine in general with Paterno simply not being able to go out on his own terms. I think that was punishment enough and a proper one. I believe I saw the other day that Paterno was working on or had completed an out clause after the '11 season early in '11 after the grand jury or something started stirring in the Sandusky case. Even at the end, when all the ish hit the fan, all he wanted was to go out on his terms, to ride out on his players shoulders. He was that arrogant to believe in the face of arguably the biggest scandal in sports history that he would and should be able to go out when he wanted to and like a hero. No,no, no. I'm sorry but you just don't get that right nor do you deserve it. I'm not happy the man is dead and I'm not trying to spit on the mans grave but simply put I'm happy that ultimately at the end he had leave disappointed and with his power completely stripped. I would be much more bitter if the lasting image of Paterno is riding out on his players shoulders after their last home game.

[You Play to Win the Game]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8175462/jerry-sandusky-scandal-penn-state-nittany-lions-trustees-passed-reform-2004

This shouldn't surmise me at this point, yet it still does. Unreal.

[SammyBirdland]

It's funny. After a while I calm down and regain my composure and try to look at the issue with some perspective.

Then I read the comments on the latest news story on WHTM's Facebook page and see hundreds of comments from people saying Paterno did nothing wrong. I precede to get angry again and think that NCAA sanctions are the only cure for this cult mentality.

[You Play to Win the Game]

It's funny. After a while I calm down and regain my composure and try to look at the issue with some perspective.

Then I read the comments on the latest news story on WHTM's Facebook page and see hundreds of comments from people saying Paterno did nothing wrong. I precede to get angry again and think that NCAA sanctions are the only cure for this cult mentality.

I go through that same cycle. It's ridiculous. I try to check myself because I hate being one of those people with pitch forks when the situation itself has nothing to do with me, but in this case I can't help it. I think it's justified. They need to burn the wole damn thing down.

[DJ MC]

It's funny. After a while I calm down and regain my composure and try to look at the issue with some perspective.

Then I read the comments on the latest news story on WHTM's Facebook page and see hundreds of comments from people saying Paterno did nothing wrong. I precede to get angry again and think that NCAA sanctions are the only cure for this cult mentality.

If it came out that there was a similar scandal involving a coach on the Orioles in the 1970s (think what came out about the Red Sox clubhouse manager not too long ago, only on a larger scale), and Earl Weaver and the front office knew about it and kept it covered up as long as they could, there would be a legion of Orioles fans trying to offer up a defense.

Killing Penn State football isn't going to do anything, because the ingredients for this type of scandal are in place anywhere that power and money are at stake. Not just in the sports world (as I believe you brought up earlier, look at the Catholic Church), but within this particular subculture it wouldn't take much to see this happen elsewhere. Even if the ultimate punishment was so terrible.

[DJ MC]

I go through that same cycle. It's ridiculous. I try to check myself because I hate being one of those people with pitch forks when the situation itself has nothing to do with me, but in this case I can't help it. I think it's justified. They need to burn the wole damn thing down.

The football team? The athletics department? The university? The entire modern system of revenue-generating college sports?

If you're saying that about one of those groups, it easily and logically could be applied to them all.

[SammyBirdland]

When Sandusky victim #1 filed his complaint with authorities, the residents of Happy Valley harassed his family so much he had to go into witness protection.

http://www.usatoday.... ... 56278226/1


Someone asked earlier who still needs to be punished here since all the actors are either in jail, about to be in jail, or deceased. Stories like this help make the case that maybe the answer is that Happy Valley needs to be punished. Stories like this, or the people who still insist that Paterno did nothing wrong, or the students rioting and flipping over vehicles upon Paterno's firing...

[DJ MC]

When Sandusky victim #1 filed his complaint with authorities, the residents of Happy Valley harassed his family so much he had to go into witness protection.

http://www.usatoday.... ... 56278226/1


Someone asked earlier who still needs to be punished here since all the actors are either in jail, about to be in jail, or deceased. Stories like this help make the case that maybe the answer is that Happy Valley needs to be punished. Stories like this, or the people who still insist that Paterno did nothing wrong, or the students rioting and flipping over vehicles upon Paterno's firing...

Again, that assumes that there is something inherent to State College that deserves punishment, when the same thing would have happened in Ann Arbor or South Bend or Tuscaloosa or Los Angeles. It's a symptom of college sports in general.

[SammyBirdland]

Again, that assumes that there is something inherent to State College that deserves punishment, when the same thing would have happened in Ann Arbor or South Bend or Tuscaloosa or Los Angeles. It's a symptom of college sports in general.

There is something inherent to State College that deserves punishment: it happened there. If it happens in Ann Arbor, South Bend, Tuscaloosa, or Los Angeles, then punish them too.

[DJ MC]

There is something inherent to State College that deserves punishment: it happened there. If it happens in Ann Arbor, South Bend, Tuscaloosa, or Los Angeles, then punish them too.

But the point of such a strong, public punishment is to discourage this from happening again. In the world of college football, where every fan is a delusional cult member to some degree and all of the coaches and officials are vying for more money and more power, it won't do a thing.

So again, it goes back to punishing the innocent (even the delusional innocent) for the crimes of the guilty.

[DJ MC]

http://collegefootba... ... enn-state/

According to the Chronicle of Higher Education (which requires a subscription to read), Big Ten leaders are considering a series of proposals in an 18-page plan prompted by the current situation at Penn State. Among the ideas being thrown around include removing the university from the conference.

Currently, the league’s Council of Presidents and Chancellors must approve any decision to suspend, expel, or place any member on probation. The Big Ten handbook requires at least a 60 percent vote for expulsion, though a Big Ten spokesperson told the Chronicle that number will increase to 70 percent (or, eight members) for 2012-13.

To vote Penn State out of the Big Ten would be unlikely, but the fact it’s reportedly being considered is some serious stuff nonetheless.

[SammyBirdland]

There's a deterrent aspect, but there's also a purely punitive aspect. Depending on how the NCAA might be examining the circumstances, the delusional folks at Happy Valley who are still railing that Paterno did nothing wrong, whether they be the majority or just the vocal minority, may be hurting their cause.

[Nuclear Dish]

I like this idea. Let the players get out with no penalty.

http://sports.yahoo.... ... tions.html

[Chris B]

I like this idea. Let the players get out with no penalty.

http://sports.yahoo.... ... tions.html

As they should....so the NCAA will probably do the exact opposite.

[DJ MC]

I like this idea. Let the players get out with no penalty.

http://sports.yahoo.... ... tions.html

No matter what else happens, they should do that.

http://collegefootba... ... e-victims/

Rather than punishing Penn State through NCAA sanctions or a football ban, Alabama coach Nick Saban has what he feels is a more productive idea for the Nittany Lions going forward in the aftermath of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

Add a tax to ticket sales for athletic events and giving the proceeds to a child abuse charity.