387 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

 

108 days until pitchers and catchers report.

[SBTarheel]

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

 

108 days until pitchers and catchers report.

The dark days are upon us. 

[RShack]

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

 

108 days until pitchers and catchers report.

 

When Nixon got re-elected, I had one of these on the wall... each square was 1 day of his 2nd term, and I'd X-out the days, 1 day at a time...  (Watergate truncated that, but I didn't mind... )

 

Anyway, we need something like this for marking the time until Spring Training....

 

[Mackus]

Five days untl free agency begins and the deadline for teams to decide to make a qualifying offer expires.

[BSLChrisStoner]

SI: Biggest off-season storylines to watch: Free agency, HOF votes, more

http://www.si.com/ml...-of-fame-awards

[BSLChrisStoner]

Sports on Earth: The MLB offseason urgency index

http://www.sportsone...ts-yankees-nats

[SportsGuy]

Good trade here:


http://www.mlbtrader...-for-karns.html

[Mackus]

This is a fascinating trade involving several players that almost certainly have different value to different beholders.  Plus someone named Boog Powell is involved!?

 

Just based on track record, I assume the Rays are getting a steal here somehow.  Miller and Morrison both seem like candidates to finally realize their potential and be better than average regulars.  But Karns is the guy with the most current value.  Wonder if the Rays think he's either a flash in the pan type or a guy who's likely to require TJ in the near future or both.

[Matt_P]

But Karns is the guy with the most current value.  Wonder if the Rays think he's either a flash in the pan type or a guy who's likely to require TJ in the near future or both.

 

Disagree. Karns has only been successful because the Rays have held down his innings by making sure he only goes through the lineup twice. If so, 150 innings may be the most he can throw successfully over 30 games. That's bad for the bullpen.

[Mackus]

Disagree. Karns has only been successful because the Rays have held down his innings by making sure he only goes through the lineup twice. If so, 150 innings may be the most he can throw successfully over 30 games. That's bad for the bullpen.

 

I guess Miller could be considered more valuable, as a close to league average bat at SS and still quite young, but he's really struggled against LHP and SS is a hard position to platoon.  Karns can't go deep and struggled to keep the ball in the park.  One of those problems could be helped simply by playing a lot of games in Safeco.

[SportsGuy]

I like the trade for both sides.

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: Top 50 FA's

http://www.cbssports...-power-rankings

[RShack]

What's wrong with Fister?  I forget...

[DJ MC]

What's wrong with Fister?  I forget...

 

His arm is losing velocity like a car on a country road in a horror movie.

[McNulty]

Disagree. Karns has only been successful because the Rays have held down his innings by making sure he only goes through the lineup twice. If so, 150 innings may be the most he can throw successfully over 30 games. That's bad for the bullpen.

 

Is it though?  The third time through the order penalty is real and severe.  I've been wondering lately if it wouldn't be smart to have a 4 man that only goes through the order twice.  Beef up the bullpen and try to leverage the middle innings to your advantage.

[mweb08]

Disagree. Karns has only been successful because the Rays have held down his innings by making sure he only goes through the lineup twice. If so, 150 innings may be the most he can throw successfully over 30 games. That's bad for the bullpen.

Is it though? The third time through the order penalty is real and severe. I've been wondering lately if it wouldn't be smart to have a 4 man that only goes through the order twice. Beef up the bullpen and try to leverage the middle innings to your advantage.

I've also thought about that. You'd need some guys for those middle innings that could pitch 2-4 inning stints as well.

One extra benefit of this would be you'd be able to save a lot of money on the rotation since obviously you wouldn't pay guys nearly as much to pitch to 18 batters or less a start. Then you can invest some of those savings into great high leverage relievers.

[McNulty]

I've also thought about that. You'd need some guys for those middle innings that could pitch 2-4 inning stints as well.

One extra benefit of this would be you'd be able to save a lot of money on the rotation since obviously you wouldn't pay guys nearly as much to pitch to 18 batters or less a start. Then you can invest some of those savings into great high leverage relievers.

 

You'd be managing personalities about wins, because it'd be difficult to get through 5 innings (no more than 3 over the minimum).

 

Sometimes when I'm really bored my mind wanders about trying different things in baseball.  Its very hard to find quality starters, but there are lots of failed starters that are really good relievers lying around.  Mike Wright is a good example.

 

Also, with current roster constructions having 12 (or 13 man) bullpens, wouldn't this be a better way to utilize your entire roster?

 

There's a lot of people here smarter than me so I'd be curious what everyone thinks.

[mweb08]

As for wins, well I think you'd have to try this with unestablished pitchers, guys that haven't made it as starters, and others that may have proven to be mediocre starters, but clearly struggle with pitching the third time through the order. Those guys would more likely be able to deal with not tallying wins. You'd also have to explain that the stat is completely meaningless in terms of how the management judges its players.

[Russ]

I think enough teams see Fister as a buy-low reclamation project that he'll get a two year deal.

[Matt_P]

Is it though?  The third time through the order penalty is real and severe.  I've been wondering lately if it wouldn't be smart to have a 4 man that only goes through the order twice.  Beef up the bullpen and try to leverage the middle innings to your advantage.

 

Edit: Fine. We can argue whether it makes sense to have a starter pitch five innings instead of six. We can argue whether you can build a bullpen in a way that it won't be hurt (although then it's at the expense of something else. End edit.

 

It certainly does reduce starter value if he can only pitch 150 innings instead of 200. That's the case regardless of whether it's your teams strategy due to how you structure your bullpen.

 

I agree that the impact might be less on a club if a team designs its pitching staff to only throw five innings at a time (with King Felix and Iwakuma being exceptions to the rule). But then it means that starting pitchers are less valuable compared to offensive players and should be valued accordingly.

 

Also, with current roster constructions having 12 (or 13 man) bullpens, wouldn't this be a better way to utilize your entire roster?

 

You mean how to best utilize your 40 man roster. The Rays try this strategy and what they do is simply have their core three or four relievers and then just call up the other bullpen guys for short stretches and just rotate relievers. It has a terrible impact on their AAA club (I understand) but it certainly helps the major league club.