Balt Sun: What will the Ravens offense look like with Derrick Henry? John Harbaugh says ‘it’ll look different.’

It will look like 3 yards and a cloud of dust if they don't fix the O-Line. In the playoffs it'll look very much like last year, only with Henry riding the pine instead of Gus.

It'll look the same when the playoffs start, Making Lamar do his Tom Brady imitation and failing at it. while Henry gets to chill.

If we're getting the same Henry as the past 5 years, it's a lot harder to not give him the football than it is Gus Edwards.

End of the day, you win by putting the ball in your best players hands. When Gus Edwards is your starting RB, and he's your 4th or 5th best offensive weapon, it's a lot easier to throw him to the side and try to pass the ball to Andrews, Likely, Flowers and OBJ.

When Derrick Henry is on your team, and if he's playing like he has in the recent past, it's a lot easier to put the ball in his hands and let him eat.

We'll see. I'll give Monken the benefit of the doubt.

It'll look the same when the playoffs start, Making Lamar do his Tom Brady imitation and failing at it. while Henry gets to chill.

This is exactly why I'm not excited.

My guess is that people who think the worst of Lamar would have hated to have Elway too.  A hall of fame talent that came close semi early in his career with just his talent alone and a good defense but came back at the end of his career with a more complete team to win two.  Not everyone can be Brady, Montana, or Mahomes.  Both Mannings, Young, Brees, and Marino were fun career arches to enjoy too. 

 

Now I hope we win more but people who are killing Lamar to me is missing out on the complete ride, story of a one-of-a-kind talent on a hall of fame projection.  Since Lamar has come to the team every year, we are one of the must watches of the NFL.  With a two-time MVP QB who can make defenses look silly trying to tackle him.  But hey he hasn't won the big game yet.  You guys do you....

My guess is that people who think the worst of Lamar would have hated to have Elway too. A hall of fame talent that came close semi early in his career with just his talent alone and a good defense but came back at the end of his career with a more complete team to win two. Not everyone can be Brady, Montana, or Mahomes. Both Mannings, Young, Brees, and Marino were fun career arches to enjoy too.

Now I hope we win more but people who are killing Lamar to me is missing out on the complete ride, story of a one-of-a-kind talent on a hall of fame projection. Since Lamar has come to the team every year, we are one of the must watches of the NFL. With a two-time MVP QB who can make defenses look silly trying to tackle him. But hey he hasn't won the big game yet. You guys do you....

He has wasted two of the best teams by DVOA of all time. Last year everything went according to script against KC on defense. Everything. The only failure point was the offense, headed by Lamar. KC even said afterward they felt Baltimore was the best team in the league.

That was the year. If he can't do it with that team around him, I have serious doubts that he can do it at all.

Up to him to prove doubters wrong.

I felt like 2011 was the year. The team was aging badly, the younger talent wasn't great, we had New England on the ropes and couldn't finish it.

Then 2012 happened. Certainly the 2012 team wasn't nearly as good as 2010 or 2011, they limped into the playoffs, then they got hot and rode it til the end.

As long as the roster remains talented and Lamar is the QB, anything is possible.

He has wasted two of the best teams by DVOA of all time. Last year everything went according to script against KC on defense. Everything. The only failure point was the offense, headed by Lamar. KC even said afterward they felt Baltimore was the best team in the league.

That was the year. If he can't do it with that team around him, I have serious doubts that he can do it at all.

Up to him to prove doubters wrong.

Your first line as highest of all time is crazy because you think that its all time right?  No there are teams with better DVOA who have lost or not won the Superbowl.  2007 New England Patriots ranked higher in DVOA and went undefeated.  I guess they should have dismantled and torn it down because that was the beginning of their downfall.  

I felt like 2011 was the year. The team was aging badly, the younger talent wasn't great, we had New England on the ropes and couldn't finish it.

Then 2012 happened. Certainly the 2012 team wasn't nearly as good as 2010 or 2011, they limped into the playoffs, then they got hot and rode it til the end.

As long as the roster remains talented and Lamar is the QB, anything is possible.

The 2011 team had Billy Cundiff and Lee Evans. The 2012 team had Justin Tucker and Jacoby Jones. Obviously Tucker is a future HOF, but relatively speaking those were replacements made on the margins, yet they made a huge difference in the outcome.

Your first line as highest of all time is crazy because you think that its all time right? No there are teams with better DVOA who have lost or not won the Superbowl. 2007 New England Patriots ranked higher in DVOA and went undefeated. I guess they should have dismantled and torn it down because that was the beginning of their downfall.

"Two of the best."

Not best of all time.

Replacing Cundiff with Tucker was obviously a plus.

Evans barely played in 2011 and obviously had the huge drop in the AFCCG. Jones was a great ST player and had some huge catches in the playoffs, but he was still #3 on the WR depth chart and targeted less than Pitta and Rice. He wasn't the main reason they won it all.

Replacing Cundiff with Tucker was obviously a plus.
Evans barely played in 2011 and obviously had the huge drop in the AFCCG. Jones was a great ST player and had some huge catches in the playoffs, but he was still #3 on the WR depth chart and targeted less than Pitta and Rice. He wasn't the main reason they won it all.

That was my point in trying to validate what you said earlier. A seemingly innocuous change made a difference only because Jones made some huge plays in big moments where Evans didn’t. Stats don’t win SBs. As long as you are talented and reasonably healthy you just need guys to make plays at the right moments, even if it’s just your WR3.

My guess is that people who think the worst of Lamar would have hated to have Elway too.  A hall of fame talent that came close semi early in his career with just his talent alone and a good defense but came back at the end of his career with a more complete team to win two.  Not everyone can be Brady, Montana, or Mahomes.  Both Mannings, Young, Brees, and Marino were fun career arches to enjoy too. 

 

Now I hope we win more but people who are killing Lamar to me is missing out on the complete ride, story of a one-of-a-kind talent on a hall of fame projection.  Since Lamar has come to the team every year, we are one of the must watches of the NFL.  With a two-time MVP QB who can make defenses look silly trying to tackle him.  But hey he hasn't won the big game yet.  You guys do you....

Personally I like to watch Lamar and I'm glad he's here, big game or not.My issue isn't with him, it's with the last two OCs playoff playcalling. Lamar didn't play his best game last season against KC,but his coaches didn't help him with the lousy playcalling. That game was completely winnable. 

My guess is that people who think the worst of Lamar would have hated to have Elway too.  A hall of fame talent that came close semi early in his career with just his talent alone and a good defense but came back at the end of his career with a more complete team to win two.  Not everyone can be Brady, Montana, or Mahomes.  Both Mannings, Young, Brees, and Marino were fun career arches to enjoy too. 

 

Now I hope we win more but people who are killing Lamar to me is missing out on the complete ride, story of a one-of-a-kind talent on a hall of fame projection.  Since Lamar has come to the team every year, we are one of the must watches of the NFL.  With a two-time MVP QB who can make defenses look silly trying to tackle him.  But hey he hasn't won the big game yet.  You guys do you....

 

Very well said.  The people who can't enjoy the team with Lamar at QB deserve their discontent.  Frankly the schadenfreude I get from the misfortune of that small subset of obnoxious fans actually helps ease my own agony when things end disappointingly.  Not my most magnanimous trait, for sure.

Personally I like to watch Lamar and I'm glad he's here, big game or not.My issue isn't with him, it's with the last two OCs playoff playcalling. Lamar didn't play his best game last season against KC,but his coaches didn't help him with the lousy playcalling. That game was completely winnable. 

Are we so sure it was the OC’s calling pass plays and not Lamar? I mean he is the common denominator from both playoff runs. Isn’t it plausible he was given a run play and a pass play to choose from a lot of the times, and of course he wants to throw the ball. Just a thought.

Not winning it all sucks and stings but as someone who didnt always enjoy the journey I can tell you that when you learn to do it it makes being a sports fan immensely more enjoyable. There are plenty of fans of franchises that have never seen their team win it all. Including a lot of us who are Orioles fans. Its the storybook ending to win a championship but it can be a damn good story without it. Being a Ravens fan in the Lamar era has been awesome.

Are we so sure it was the OC’s calling pass plays and not Lamar? I mean he is the common denominator from both playoff runs. Isn’t it plausible he was given a run play and a pass play to choose from a lot of the times, and of course he wants to throw the ball. Just a thought.

No, I don't think it's plausible that Lamar is calling the plays and is super biased towards passing.

 

First, in 2019, it's highly unlikely IMO that Harbaugh would have given a 2nd year QB that responsibility. I mean, Roman barely gave them any time to do anything at the line, and I remember people claiming that Lamar rarely audibled. I remember people claiming that Flacco wasn't allowed to audible his first few years. So pinning 2019 on Lamar isn't believable to me.

 

For this year, if Lamar calling the plays leads to unbalanced passing, wouldn't they have been higher than 30th in the league in pass attempts? Wouldn't the same thing have happened against the Texans? Would pass happy Lamar have had them run 42 times for over 200 yards and passed for just 152 yards one week earlier? Did they give Lamar extra freedom against KC in the biggest game of the year?

 

I do think that Lamar has choices when he gets to the line, and certainly has the ability to audible. I don't know enough to say if any particular choices in the KC game were the wrong choice. But if he is constantly making the wrong choice, against the coaching staff's wishes, then it's up to the coaches to rein him in and stop that from happening. The coaches can tell him on the sidelines that we need to establish the run a little bit, no audibles this series or whatever.

 

So, I just don't see it.

Are we so sure it was the OC’s calling pass plays and not Lamar? I mean he is the common denominator from both playoff runs. Isn’t it plausible he was given a run play and a pass play to choose from a lot of the times, and of course he wants to throw the ball. Just a thought.

I keep seeing this, I just don't think we hired a new OC to turn the playcalling over to Lamar. Is Lamar calling plays? It's the NFL, so anything is possible. if that's the case then Harbaugh has some explaining to do imo. As far as common denominators, there are two. Lamar and an OC that abandoned the run game early with the league's top rushing attack. I guess we'll never actually know for certain, but I'd bet my house it was Monken calling the plays. 

You can go back through the Flacco era game logs and find many examples of inexplicably pass crazy outings sprinkled in random games over the years. The QBs changed. The OCs changed. The issue remains, and only one person was here through all of it. Well, maybe two if you count Sam Koch as player and coach.