18 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

With the Orioles pitchers struggling, particularly Chen yesterday, I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were on having one standard of rules for all of baseball -- either DH or no DH. I know the O's being an AL, the vast majority here would prefer baseball to go to the DH universally. That's not what I'm asking though. For purposes of this debate, I just want to stick to whether baseball should adopt one set of rules for both leagues, no matter what it would be.

I say yes, especially with year round interleague play next year in addition to the World Series. How fair is it if Game 7 comes down to an AL pitcher(a complete hypothetical- say it's 2 all in the 6th with the bases loaded and 2 outs). Likewise the NL roster is structured in such to not have DH-like players that could help the team in an AL ballpark.

I realize eliminating or expanding the DH will get union resistance. Eliminating would obviously mean 14(next year 15) less specialized jobs and hurt older players, who want to extend their careers. However expanding it would devalue the position(credit to Camden Depot here) thus making their saleries less. My guess if you had to pick or choose though given that the All-Star game, college, various minor leagues, etc all use only the DH, that's what it would be. I don't expect this to change anytime soon. I'm probably in the minority on this one, but I actually would eliminate the DH. However as I've stated, I'd much rather do this than play with two separate sets of rules.

[BSLChrisStoner]

There should absolutely be universal rules prior to next year, with year round inter-league play.
The Union is never going to allow the DH to be eliminated, so the NL should adopt the DH.

[mweb08]

I greatly prefer having the DH. So much so, that I would not advocate giving that up in favor of an uniform rule, which would be nice.

I don't anticipate anything happening here, but it would be nice to see the DH adopted throughout baseball.

[SammyBirdland]

Pitchers batting is just silly.

[Mackus]

I don't really think that the year-round interleague play necessitates a decision be made on universalizing the rules. Teams still play the same number of interleague games, they are just spread out more throughout the season, right?

I'm very much in favor of the DH. I do agree with the line of thought that not having the DH brings in a tiny bit of coaching strategy over whether to let your starter bat fairly late in the game in an important spot or to go to a PH and then the bullpen, but that is far overwhelmed by the utter lack of strategy needed to get a pitcher out earlier in the game compared to having to face an often very good hitter 2-3 extra times.

[Don Quixote]

I greatly prefer having the DH. So much so, that I would not advocate giving the up in favor of an uniform rule, which would be nice.

I don't anticipate anything happening here, but it would be nice to see the DH adopted throughout baseball.

I agree with this. A set of universal rules would be nice, but I couldn't be on board with that unless it meant DH expansion. As for how many positions rule changing would create/eliminate, the effect is probably less than it would have been 10-15 years ago. The increased use of the DH for roster flexibility and the like has yielded more part-time DHs and occasional DHs who are just getting a "half-day off." Regardless of the universality of the rules, I think we're moving toward a point where only those hitters/sluggers regarded as truly elite will be able to DH full-time.

If the DH is adopted MLB-wide, I wonder if interleague play is even necessary. The more we go on, the less novel it is, which was initially one of the selling points, and the differences between the two leagues are essentially eliminated, which was also one of the points. Universal DH adoption could also allow for a total reconfiguration of MLB and the possible elimination of the leagues as we know them anyway. League presidents and umpires are long in the rear-view mirror, so why not the leagues themselves?

[Oriole85]

I agree with this. A set of universal rules would be nice, but I couldn't be on board with that unless it meant DH expansion. As for how many positions rule changing would create/eliminate, the effect is probably less than it would have been 10-15 years ago. The increased use of the DH for roster flexibility and the like has yielded more part-time DHs and occasional DHs who are just getting a "half-day off." Regardless of the universality of the rules, I think we're moving toward a point where only those hitters/sluggers regarded as truly elite will be able to DH full-time.

If the DH is adopted MLB-wide, I wonder if interleague play is even necessary. The more we go on, the less novel it is, which was initially one of the selling points, and the differences between the two leagues are essentially eliminated, which was also one of the points. Universal DH adoption could also allow for a total reconfiguration of MLB and the possible elimination of the leagues as we know them anyway. League presidents and umpires are long in the rear-view mirror, so why not the leagues themselves?

I don't think interleague play is going away, as much as some traditionalist want it too. MLB always cites the positive attendance. I know some would argue it has more to do with the fact, it is prime calender opportuntity (late spring/early summer and a lot on the weekends) as well as geographical proxmity and historical oddities in many cases and not so much the interleague concept per se. I would say both sides are correct, but you wouldn't have those geographical proxmity matchups and historical oddities in nearly all the cases except with interleague play.

I actually think the opposite of you, with the standarization of the two leagues, it actually has increased the relevance of interleague play, because you are now largely competing on the same playing field besides the DH.

Every major sport has two leagues(or conferences), I don't see MLB going to a World Cup style playoff system.

[RShack]

I don't care whether the DH is crammed down everybody's throat. I just don't want them making everybody everywhere putting up with P's who can't hit looking silly at the plate.

It's fine with me if some folks don't like the DH. I just wish they'd stop with the BS about how having P's hit increases strategy. It doesn't... a trained monkey could make NL P/PH decisions...

[SammyBirdland]

I'd be satisfied if they just required the DH for all interleague games, even when the National League team hosts. Then after the interleague game, the National League team can go back to their inferior rules.

[Oriole85]

I'd be satisfied if they just required the DH for all interleague games, even when the National League team hosts. Then after the interleague game, the National League team can go back to their inferior rules.

I'm sure the NL teams would tell you the opposite with pitchers batting.

[SammyBirdland]

I'm sure the NL teams would tell you the opposite with pitchers batting.

They're delusional.

[Oriole85]

They're delusional.

Yeah I know, it's a comfort level thing, NL fans feel strong about their brand of baseball being better and likewise AL fans feel that way in regards to the DH.

[Nuclear Dish]

I'd like them to implement the DH in both leagues, but I'd like them to also allow you to DH for any one position, not just the pitcher.

So if you have Micah Owings or Zach Britton pitching, and Cesar Izturis at SS, you might opt to DH for your SS instead of your P. But you have to keep that alignment the whole game, so once the P comes out, the next P also has to hit.

[Oriole85]

I'd like them to implement the DH in both leagues, but I'd like them to also allow you to DH for any one position, not just the pitcher.

So if you have Micah Owings or Zach Britton pitching, and Cesar Izturis at SS, you might opt to DH for your SS instead of your P. But you have to keep that alignment the whole game, so once the P comes out, the next P also has to hit.

I could be wrong, but I thought you could do that, just no team in their right mind would. The same reason you don't see NL teams who have decent hitting pitchers forgoing the DH in interleague at AL parks.

[RShack]

I could be wrong, but I thought you could do that, just no team in their right mind would.

Nope.

Rule 6.10(b)1: "A hitter may be designated to bat for the starting pitcher and for all subsequent pitchers..."

[DJ MC]

If Major League Baseball agrees to require that every pitcher in the majors spend the entire next off-season at the spring sites of their respective teams for daily batting practice--and I am legally permitted to injure any person who espouses the double switch as though it is a tactic straight out of grandmaster-level chess and as interesting as the entire run of The Wire--I will accept the elimination of the designated hitter from baseball. Unless and until that happens, though, the idea of pitchers hitting throughout the sport should be the last thing on anyone's mind.

[Nuclear Dish]

I could be wrong, but I thought you could do that, just no team in their right mind would. The same reason you don't see NL teams who have decent hitting pitchers forgoing the DH in interleague at AL parks.

Rshack already showed you that you are, in fact, mistaken. I just wanted to point out that teams giving up the DH is not unheard of.

There have been 4 games in which a team chose to give up their DH and let the pitcher hit (Fegie Jenkins, Ken Holtzman, and Ken Brett twice). There are dozens of instances in which teams made strategic moves in which they forfeited their DH for the remainder of a game, often forcing pitchers into at bats.

I remember the Yankees in 1988 once used Rick Rhoden as a DH against the Orioles. He batted 7th and went 0-for-1 with a sac fly.

And with guys like Rick Ankiel, Brian Anderson, Adam Loewen, and even Micah Owings showing that pitchers can transition as major league outfielders, it's a matter of time before someone begins using a pitcher regularly in the OF when he's not pitching. It worked for this guy:

http://www.baseball-... ... ba01.shtml

[Oriole85]

And with guys like Rick Ankiel, Brian Anderson, Adam Loewen, and even Micah Owings showing that pitchers can transition as major league outfielders, it's a matter of time before someone begins using a pitcher regularly in the OF when he's not pitching. It worked for this guy:

http://www.baseball-... ... ba01.shtml

It worked for that guy 80 years ago. I believe it was Roy Oswalt who played Left last year after Ryan Howard got thrown out. The postions are a lot more specialized now than they were then. I doubt will see this on a regular basis, maybe once in a blue moon. Last thing a team wants to see is a pitcher injured while playing the field. They made a big enough deal about Rivera shagging flyballs during BP.

[Chris B]

It's an insider article, but Jim Bowden thinks it's time for the NL to adopt the DH rule.

http://insider.espn....ms ... fid=4297