342 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Also, I don't see the parallel with Lawrie. If Carolina and dook are getting calls with the game on the line in the final seconds because they are Carolina and dook, I agree that other teams' fans have a right to outrage.

But really? How often has that happened? I can't think of a single instance. In most cases, in basketball, the refs let the teams play in the final seconds.

Also, Lawrie was at home, so if these were comparable, I would have expected Lawrie to benefit from the calls, not suffer.

Lawrie was absolutely entitled to his feelings that he got screwed because he did, in a crucial moment of a tight game, at home, TWICE. Show me a single instance of Maryland getting screwed by poor calls multiple times in crucial moments of a single tight game against UNC or dook, and I'll admit that you are entitled to your outrage OVER THAT ONE GAME.

I certainly don't think Lawrie would have a right to whine about the officiating for the Rays in general, or against the Jays in general, or against him personally for as long as he's been in the league. There's no proof of that, just as there is no proof of such an enduring bias against Maryland.

I admit there might be some favor shown to UNC and dook when they are at home, but not at crunch time, and not enough to warrant such ridiculous whining as many Maryland and State fans are apt to do.

You thought Lawrie was entitled to his outrage, because the call was blatantly missed. You also made the point that if MD wants more calls, they should improve as a program. Stating the reality that elite teams such as UNC and Duke get calls at home. The connection is that you either want games called correctly, or you do not.

Again, if you have to leave games in the hands of officials, you have not done enough to win. That doesn't mean that fans should not be irritated that elite teams get calls at home. Those calls certainly don't have to occur in the last seconds of games, to impact games.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Should I go on?

Thank you, Chris, for recognizing that the idea is a poor one, and that it's just another excuse that people (and now the schools themselves) use to justify a move that wouldn't be popular if the publicly-stated reasons were entirely financial.

I think you nailed why that charge has little merit. Also, UNC and Duke (and NCST, and Wake) can't change their geographical proximity to each other. That is just the way it is.

I never understood some fellow MD fans, that thought the traveling would improve if MD was in the Big Ten.

Your last point is also correct. Any issue mentioned that is not $$$ is just talk, to justify a potential move.

[Nuclear Dish]

You thought Lawrie was entitled to his outrage, because the call was blatantly missed. You also made the point that if MD wants more calls, they should improve as a program. Stating the reality that elite teams such as UNC and Duke get calls at home. The connection is that you either want games called correctly, or you do not.

Again, if you have to leave games in the hands of officials, you have not done enough to win. That doesn't mean that fans should not be irritated that elite teams get calls at home. Those calls certainly don't have to occur in the last seconds of games, to impact games.

Of course I want games called correctly. I don't advocate that UNC and dook (or any other team) SHOULD get the calls at home, just that they do. I am sure Maryland benefited from this as much as anyone in 2000-2002.

But officials aren't robots, and they are going to blow calls. There's a difference between blown calls that ruin a game and accusing refs of a bias. Lawrie was the victim of TWO blown calls in crunch time. I think he's entitled to his rage over blown calls such as those.

Maryland and State fans are accusing the officials of a general bias. If that were true, it would undermine the legitimacy of the games being played, and I have a hard time accepting it exists as a result.

I completely agree with you that if a team thinks they lost because of the officiating, they didn't do enough to win the game. They should never have been in such a situation. It's what I preach to my youth baseball team so they learn not to whine about the calls, and it applies every bit as much at the collegiate or pro level.

[Chris B]

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanCBS
Old Dominion heading to Conference-USA. News conference set for later today. CAA needs to go after Davidson and Charleston.

Not surprising ODU wants to leave now that VCU also has. CAA will have a 7 team conference tournament.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanCBS
Old Dominion heading to Conference-USA. News conference set for later today. CAA needs to go after Davidson and Charleston.

Not surprising ODU wants to leave now that VCU also has. CAA will have a 7 team conference tournament.

I felt good for you as an A10 fan getting VCU, but I'm sorry to see the CAA lose VCU and ODU. That was a very capable mid-major conference.

Does increase Towson's chances of drastically improving over the next couple of years though.

[Chris B]

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanCBS
Old Dominion heading to Conference-USA. News conference set for later today. CAA needs to go after Davidson and Charleston.

Not surprising ODU wants to leave now that VCU also has. CAA will have a 7 team conference tournament.

I felt good for you as an A10 fan getting VCU, but I'm sorry to see the CAA lose VCU and ODU. That was a very capable mid-major conference.

Does increase Towson's chances of drastically improving over the next couple of years though.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. I always admired the CAA because (excluding a few outliers) it was a really tight-knit conference. It had a lot of regional rivalries that have been developed over a long period of time. Taking out the low/mid-majors, I have always thought the MAC and the CAA did it the way right way: a geographical conference that boasts like-minded schools that have created rivalries. A shame that the CAA will no longer be that (I expect them to look to add a combo of Charleston, Coastal Carolina, and Davidson).

I still think VCU and ODU will continue the rivalry out-of-conference. IIRC, the CUSA (and certainly the A10) have 16 game conference schedules, while the CAA had 18. So, VCU will have to fill in some more OOC games.

[jsh]

I'm going to ramble, so apologies in advance.

I see everyone mentioning FSU/Clemson going to the B12. Obviously, I understand why people think FSU is going. What I don't get is why people think Clemson would leave. They're not in dire straights, to my knowledge, when it comes to their finances. Would they like more money? Of course but they'll never match what USCe makes and they'd have to pay 20M to get out of the ACC.

Add to the 20M exit fee the increase in travel. FSU's president said in his memo that the projected increase in revenue would not offset the increase in travel costs. FSU's closest ACC foe is GT, which is a little under 5 hours away. Clemson on the other hand has 6 teams that play within a 5 hour radius. Not to mention most of the ACC championships take place in North Carolina whereas the B12's championships would be held in Texas.

Throw in the fact that Clemson is a founding member of the ACC and has a large alumni base in NC and I can't see them leaving.

That brings up my next point. If Clemson won't leave, who else would? Rumors are Miami doesn't have interest which makes sense to me. They're a small private school that fits in much better in the ACC than they would in the B12 and their alumni/students come from up and down the east coast. Virginia Tech? I'm not buying them either. They'd have the same travel concerns as Clemson (VT has 8(!) schools within a 6 hour drive) and I'm not sure a VA government that forced VT into the ACC would be willing to just let them leave. I don't see any other ACC teams leaving.

So the question becomes, is FSU willing to join a conference where their closest conference member is Louisville or WVU? Are they really going to join a conference that is academically weaker and where they would be a geographic outlier? My gut still says no.

[BSLChrisStoner]

If the ACC were to lose FSU, and Clemson; I'd be surprised if we did not again hear rumors of Maryland to the Big Ten. Would still be unlikely to happen, but the rumors would be back.

The additions of 'Cuse, and Pittsburgh were panned by some as not making sense. It was always about being proactive, and realizing that losing two Southern teams could happen.

Fox Sports: Big 12 - SEC deal
http://msn.foxsports...-playoff-051812

Pete Fiutak wonders about some of the ramifications of this Big 12 - SEC deal, stating "Will this force the ACC to try to make a big move to find a higher profile bowl alliance to try to set up its own ready-made playoff game? Will this make the Big Ten look further into expansion and finally tie the knot with Notre Dame, Maryland, Rutgers, or any of the other programs that have been in the discussion over the last few years?"

[jsh]

I think you'll see the ACC reach an agreement with Notre Dame to play each other in the Orange Bowl as long as Notre Dame has X amount of wins or is ranked in the top 10 or 15.

If the ACC is falling apart, which I still think is doubtful, Rutgers has no chance at the B1G. If ND decides to remain independent, still a very likely option, than the dream expansion for B1G is UMD/UVA/UNC/Duke.

[Greg Pappas]

It'll be very interesting to see what Swofford and the ACC do next.

I imagine Notre Dame's conference value has gone up in the eyes of the Big Ten and ACC. However, while ND may stay independent, conference considerations may lean back towards the more stable situation in the Big Ten.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Big Ten Network: Q&A w/ Tom Dienhart
http://btn.com/2012/...stions-roll-in/

Question: "With Florida State considering looking into joining the Big 12, would it be wise for the Big Ten to offer Notre Dame again or go after other schools like Georgia Tech?"

Dienhart's answer: "Uh-oh, here we go again. Look, the Big Ten is NOT expanding—at least for now. I sat right next to Commissioner Delany last fall—and he basically said as much. Just because other leagues are expanding or adding teams—ACC, Big 12, SEC—the Big Ten won’t follow along like a lap dog to just expand because “everyone else is doing it.” Delany always emphasizes the Big Ten will only add a school that makes sense. Would Notre Dame make sense? No doubt, but the Irish already have told the Big Ten “no” twice.

I am intrigued by Georgia Tech being a target. The same goes for Maryland. Each is a good academic school. And each would expand the Big Ten into new, heavily-populated regions which would benefit the footprint of the already successful and profitable Big Ten Network.

There are so many moving parts on the conference landscape as I type this. Again, Delany will continue to monitor the situation. I guarantee you that. But he won’t act hastily—if he acts at all."

[jsh]

GT is an option but I don't think it ever happens. They're such a geographic outlier that I don't think it makes much sense. If the ACC falls apart than I see GT ultimately landing in the B12 who would love to keep invading the SEC's territory.

The non-ND holy grail, as I've said, is MD/UVA/UNC/Duke. The B1G gets three rapidly growing states, three new media markets (Bmore, DC, Charlotte), four schools with good to great academic reputations. All of this without disrupting the conferences' geographic footprint.

[BSLChrisStoner]

GT is an option but I don't think it ever happens. They're such a geographic outlier that I don't think it makes much sense. If the ACC falls apart than I see GT ultimately landing in the B12 who would love to keep invading the SEC's territory.

The non-ND holy grail, as I've said, is MD/UVA/UNC/Duke. The B1G gets three rapidly growing states, three new media markets (Bmore, DC, Charlotte), four schools with good to great academic reputations. All of this without disrupting the conferences' geographic footprint.

Yeah, I think this makes sense all the way around, just like your last post. Particularly the idea of an ACC agreement with ND in the Orange Bowl.

I agree that ACC breaking apart is unlikely, but it does seem at-least plausible. You can craft scenarios where teams in the ACC could leave the league for the Big Ten, SEC, and Big 12.

Doesn't look like FSU or Clemson will jump. I see Bobby Bowden has told Sirius XM that if the Seminoles want to win another National Championship, that is more likely to occur in the ACC. Obvious point, but means more coming from him.

Still, let's say FSU and Clemson jumped to the Big 12. Would the SEC react by pursuing NCST, or VaTech? (Either a new media market in Raleigh, or another strong football program.)

If the ACC lost 3-4 programs (somewhat off-set by adding Syracuse, and Pitt), would that make UNC, Duke, UVA, and MD more likely to pursue affiliation with the Big Ten? (And in a potential nightmare scenario for MD, what would be the remaining options for the Terps, if the Big Ten wanted just two schools, and took UNC and Duke only?)

I guess none of that is likely to come to fruition, but on possibility alone; I'd say that MD would be right to preemptively approach the Big Ten and at-least discuss things.

[Chris B]

Cory Fravel @CoryFravel
My sources confirm an agreement in principle has been reached for Clemson to join the Big12. @TruthOrBear247 @theDudeofWV @GSwaim

If true...uh oh.

[Greg Pappas]

WOW, if true. The ACC has REAL issues if Clemson and FSU bolt, and have real football-related issues regardless.

[Nuclear Dish]

I'm a bit stunned by this. It almost seems like Clemson reacted to FSU's initial foray, but ended up taking the lead. Why was Clemson so eager to jump at an opportunity to bolt?

If this is true, the ACC shouldn't react. It should rededicate itself as the premier basketball conference, and be ready with offers to other schools should VaTech and/or Maryland look elsewhere. I don't think Maryland is going anywhere unless they are given an offer from the Big10. But VaTech could look to join Clemson and FSU in the Big12, or they could seek admission to the SEC.

The ACC should be ready to offer Louisville and UConn just in case. Those two would add a lot to basketball without hurting the football. No, they wouldn't be as successful as VaTech, but they would still provide decent programs.

[jsh]

Who is Cory Fravel?

The ACC will be happy to remain at 12. I'm not sure VT, or NCST, will be able to shake loose the political chains to free themselves from the conference. The TV contract payouts will bump up to just under 20M per school.

Chris, MD will be safe one way or the other I think. Either the B1G or the B12 will want them. The Baltimore/DC market is just too big of a market to get left behind.

[Nuclear Dish]

Who is Cory Fravel?

The ACC will be happy to remain at 12. I'm not sure VT, or NCST, will be able to shake loose the political chains to free themselves from the conference. The TV contract payouts will bump up to just under 20M per school.

Chris, MD will be safe one way or the other I think. Either the B1G or the B12 will want them. The Baltimore/DC market is just too big of a market to get left behind.

Cory Fravel is a fairly prominent Clemson blogger. He's not one to throw out unconfirmed reports.

On the other hand, he keeps warning everyone that it's an agreement in principle and nothing is signed, so he might be covering his butt or he might be backtracking.

[jsh]

This from a Tulsa reporter:

@DaveSittler Big 12 expansion breakdown: 4 schools OK with it, 4 on fence, 1 pushing hard to make it happen, 1 pushing hard to prevent it

Not shocking. In fact, I'm surprised more schools aren't against it. For Texas and Oklahoma, you'll be great no matter what. Are WVU, OKST, TCU and the other schools willing to sacrifice a better opportunity of winning for a few million dollars? Going to 12, or beyond, would also require a conference title game which is another hurdle for these teams to clear to reach the title game or the playoffs.

[BSLMikeLowe]

GT is an option but I don't think it ever happens. They're such a geographic outlier that I don't think it makes much sense. If the ACC falls apart than I see GT ultimately landing in the B12 who would love to keep invading the SEC's territory.

The non-ND holy grail, as I've said, is MD/UVA/UNC/Duke. The B1G gets three rapidly growing states, three new media markets (Bmore, DC, Charlotte), four schools with good to great academic reputations. All of this without disrupting the conferences' geographic footprint.

GT a geographic outlier? Not really, if you look closer. If you view Chicago as the geographic center of the Big Ten, then as the crow flies Atlanta is slightly closer than Raleigh-Durham and College Park. Also, Atlanta is a major hub airport, so it would probably be easier/cheaper to fly teams there as opposed to somewhere like Charlottesville, VA, assuming state politics would interfere with UVA leaving the ACC. Atlanta also sits right on Interstate 75, a major north-south artery that is close to a number of Midwestern locales with Big Ten schools.

And of course the aforementioned factor of being in a Top-10 media market, and still a strong academic institution, would make GT a very appealing option for the B1G