39 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

No one is arguing that.

 

No one is arguing what?

[You Play to Win the Game]

I will say that this could end up just being a blip on the radar for Turgeon if this next class is a good one. Even good coaches can largely miss on a class, or worse, two classes bunched together. So I'm not giving up hope on Turgeon, but he should have done more to date than he has.

 

Yep. This is my only frustration with Branden's argument around this - because a lot of what he's saying is reasonable - but when you can't admit he should have done more to date than he has, then you just can't be taken seriously.

[Pedro Cerrano]

The bottom line:  folks that are pissed at Edsall but willing to give Turegon a pass are either biased or have their head in the clouds.

[bnickle]

I think it's fair how critical people are being currently - because no one (at least that I've seen) has called for him to lose his job to this point. So I think people are being reasonable in their critique, but they have every right to be critical to this point.

Critical of what exactly. Sure, there are certain specifics where its fair to criticize Turge. Overall, what the program has done under him to this point, and where it appears he has them positioned, is not a place where I'm going to be critical.

[bnickle]

The bottom line:  folks that are pissed at Edsall but willing to give Turegon a pass are either biased or have their head in the clouds.

-Because Turg has proven both in his past, and at MD, that he can beat quality teams. Top 15 teams. He has a track record.

 

 

-His teams have progressed as the seasons have went along. Not regressed like Edsall.

 

 

-He stepped into a worse immediate situation than Edsall did.

 

 

-He didn't alienate half his players and fanbase within the first 6 months of being here.

 

 

 

Even the bottom  line has been better. Ignore all that stuff above, his overall record here has been better.

[Pedro Cerrano]

-Because Turg has proven both in his past, and at MD, that he can beat quality teams. Top 15 teams. He has a track record.

 

 

-His teams have progressed as the seasons have went along. Not regressed like Edsall.

 

 

-He stepped into a worse immediate situation than Edsall did.

 

 

-He didn't alienate half his players and fanbase within the first 6 months of being here.

 

 

 

Even the bottom  line has been better. Ignore all that stuff above, his overall record here has been better.

 

This post is garbage, sorry.

[bnickle]

This post is garbage, sorry.

Factual garbage.

The only thing you can debate is that Turge had a worse immediate situation. Everything else is undeniably true.

[mweb08]

So it was just bad luck when Turg alienated Stoglin, but it was Edsall's fault that he alienated some of Ralph's players? Also, it's silly to ignore a historic level of injuries two straight years.

[bnickle]

Stoglin failed a drug test multiple Times and was suspended by the school.

And even if you had a point, there is a.big difference clashing heads.with.a.player and having multiple players quit and transfer on you.

[You Play to Win the Game]

At least Edsall has made it to a bowl game... Still waiting to dance with Turge.... and not to the NIT.

[mweb08]

Stoglin failed a drug test multiple Times and was suspended by the school.


And even if you had a point, there is a.big difference clashing heads.with.a.player and having multiple players quit and transfer on you.

Stoglin had serious issues with Turg regardless of the drug tests. Also, 5 players having an issue with Edsall is about equivalent to 1 player having an issue with Turgeon for whatever that's worth.

[mweb08]

And anyone that bashes Edsall without mentioning the injuries or minimizes them is either foolish or biased.

[bnickle]

At least Edsall has made it to a bowl game... Still waiting to dance with Turge.... and not to the NIT.

Not close to being equal and you know.it.


If.only you could make the NCAA tourney with 75% of your wins being cupcakes. Winning 25% of your conference games and finishing with an.overall .500 record. When the NCAA field doubles come talk to me.

[bnickle]

Stoglin had serious issues with Turg regardless of the drug tests. Also, 5 players having an issue with Edsall is about equivalent to 1 player having an issue with Turgeon for whatever that's worth.

Ridiculous to compare the two. Players quit the team in the middle of the season. There were serious issues beyond that with many other players. it was truly a team mutiny.

 

 

And you want to compare that to a player and coach butting heads. Happens every freaking day in every lockerroom.  Stoglin had already said he was coming back for '12-'13 before being suspended.

[mweb08]

Stoglin had serious issues with Turg regardless of the drug tests. Also, 5 players having an issue with Edsall is about equivalent to 1 player having an issue with Turgeon for whatever that's worth.

Ridiculous to compare the two. Players quit the team in the middle of the season. There were serious issues beyond that with many other players. it was truly a team mutiny.
 
 
And you want to compare that to a player and coach butting heads. Happens every freaking day in every lockerroom.  Stoglin had already said he was coming back for '12-'13 before being suspended.

Sure, man. It wasn't a team mutiny and really it had little to no long term effects on the program. It wasn't even a huge deal in the short-term since it's not like that was a great team anyway.

[mweb08]

Also lets all acknowledge the obvious point that MD is a basketball school and is much easier to recruit to for basketball than football. Also that it's easier to take a poor roster and turn it around in basketball than it is in football.

[bnickle]

Sure, man. It wasn't a team mutiny and really it had little to no long term effects on the program. It wasn't even a huge deal in the short-term since it's not like that was a great team anyway.

You're just wrong here. But keep making a post immediately after to try and change the direction of the thread.

 

 

 

MD is certainly more of a basketball school than football school. And Rob is right when he mentions things like Comcast Center, fertile recruiting grounds, and some prestige. The point is, that didn't help in the immediate future. Turge inherited a worse roster than Edsall. It's not even been 3 full years since he took over. Again look how long it has taken other programs to build back up.

 

 

 

The expectations should and will be higher over time for the BBall program. Not really a factor to this point.

 

 

And of course, Turge has actually recruited better than Edsall, has performed better in the conference, has a higher winning % overall.

 

 

 

These two haven't been even during their tenures. Edsall is even if youre grading on an unrealistic curve because you remember MD being a Top 20 program 10 years ago.

[BSLChrisStoner]

The other one that no one ever mentions is the loss of Cassell Jr. That was by no fault of Turge. Now,well see next year how good he is, but he was one of the top Jucos this year and is going to UConn.

Another player that likely would have improved this teams collective team IQ.

I agree this was unfortunate for Turgeon here. Certainly could have helped to have had him around.

Fairly similar situations previously with players like Terrence Jennings, Tyree Evans, Gus Gilchrist, etc.

[SportsGuy]

Obviously should have been in the tourney within 3 years.

Can't believe anyone would argue differently.

[mweb08]

Nickle, you can argue with me about some smaller points, and you may very well be right about some of them, but the larger point remains that if Turgeon had done a good job to date, MD would have made at least one tourney, and if you dispute that it's hard to take you all that seriously as Ricker said. 

 

Also, I don't see how one can be logically consistent while having both your positions on Turgeon and Edsall. There's room for a difference of opinion on each based on what's happened, but there's not room to think one is good at the least and the other is horrible IMO unless bias comes into play.