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BSL: Terps lose at home to Oregon State; What did we see?


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:26 PM

BSL: Terps lose at home to Oregon State; What did we see?
http://baltimorespor...egon-state-see/

 

The University of Maryland fell to 1-2 on the season, with a disheartening 90-83 home loss to Oregon State.

 

What did we see?

 

1) Going into tonight, I was looking to see if MD would get off to a better start than they had vs. Connecticut or Abilene Christian. The Terrapins went to half-time tied with Oregon State, and appropriately – Coach Turgeon wasn’t thrilled with the effort. Overall, we were anticipating a 10-12 point MD win, and instead the Terps fell to 1-2.

 

1a) Losing to a major-conference team is not a horrible, embarrassing loss (even if OSU lost to Coppin State); but this was still a game MD should have been expected to win at home. Oregon State was picked by Pac 12 Coaches to finish 10th in the league. If that occurs, OSU will likely be outside the Top 100 in RPI. More importantly, this gives MD two out-of-conference losses, with a 3rd expected when the Terrapins head to Ohio State. There is also the Paradise Jam awaiting next week, and forthcoming games vs. Tulsa at home, and George Washington at the BB&T Classic at the Verizon Center. The point being there are other opportunities for OOC losses. Losing games like this doesn’t end MD’s NCAAT chances. That would be a ludicrous statement in November. What it does though is force MD to play above existing expectations in Conference play (or steal that game at Ohio State).

 

2) MD’s comeback vs. UConn was started by Layman, as was their run vs. Abilene Christian. We know he can get scorching in a hurry. What we wanted to see tonight, was an outing where he was consistently impacting throughout. We did see him get going earlier tonight, as he had a dunk and a 3 in the first 6 minutes. There was a beautiful block from Layman at around the 5 minute mark of the 1st half. With just over 1 minute left in the 1st, Layman used a nice pump-fake to drive from the top of the key to the basket for the score – tying the game at 37. Down 12 (57-45), Layman hit a needed 3. Another Layman 3, this time with 9+ left, got MD within 2 (65-63). Layman had 12 FG attempts, 8 of them coming from 3. Layman had 15 points, and 7 boards.

 

3) Wells had 3 FG attempts vs. Abilene Christian. I don’t want to see another game this year, where his offensive impact is so non-existent. Five minutes into tonight, Wells equaled his FG attempts from Wednesday night. The game was tied at 27, when Wells had a terribly lazy pass leading to an Oregon State steal and fast-break. A 3 from Wells, made it a 1 point game (31-30) with 4:30 left. Oregon Stated started the 2nd half with an 8-0 run, before a Wells basket. After another OSU score, Wells had 3 points the old-fashioned way to make it 50-43. Wells took another good pass from Peters in the paint, scoring through contact. With the foul shot, MD was down 6 (61-55). With 6 minutes left, Wells took a charge. Wells picked up his 4th foul with 5 minutes left. Nice jumper in the lane to make it 74-70. He scored quickly with a 1 minute left to get MD within 3.  Wells had a good game overall, finishing with 23 points, 8 for 8 from the line, 5 boards, and 3 turnovers.

 

4) Smotrycz came into tonight averaging 7.5 boards in his first two games as a Terp. ESPN’s Andy Katz passed on that Smotrycz’s rebounding was surprising Coach Turgeon. I thought it would be a good sign to see him continue that trend tonight. He finished with 5 boards. A 3 from Smotrycz put the Terps up 20-14. Trailing 27-25, Smotrycz used an effective ball-fake to get to the line. He would hit both FT’s to tie the game. As time was running down to end the 1st half, Smotryz did not settle for a jumper. He gained contact, and again got to the line. Nice move along the baseline at the 12:30 mark, scoring and getting to the line. The FT miss prevented MD from setting the defense though. MD pulled within 3 , when Smotrycz hit a 3 from the wing with 10 mts left.  Another ball-fake and 3 from Smotrycz made it 76-73 OSU with 3:30 left. Smotrycz had 16 points, those 5 boards, 3 steals, and 2 assists. He also had 4 turnovers.

 

5) Maryland has played better when they’ve been less passive, and have been more aggressive on defense. I wanted to see the Terps gain some offense from defense. There were a few examples of this tonight, but not as much as I hoped to see. One of Coach Turgeon’s disappointments at half-time, was MD’s defensive effort.

 

6) Coach Turgeon spent a lot of the off-season talking about the need for Faust to be a lock-down perimeter defender. I wanted to see Faust get the assignment vs. Nelson. Nelson, who came into tonight averaging 30 points per game, scored 31 points tonight. Faust was not shy on the offensive end, taking 3 early shots to begin the night. He tied the game at 2 in the opening minutes of the game. Faust missed the front-end of a 1&1 with 10:30 left. Down 9, Faust hit an important 3 with 6 minutes left. Faust was 2 of 8 from the floor. He did have 6 boards.

 

7) Maryland did some solid work on the boards, winning the battle on the glass 39-32.

 

8) Mitchell was 12 for 16 from the floor entering tonight, and was averaging 7 boards. Starting or not, if he can consistently give MD post production, that is going to help a lot. Tonight, Mitchell continued to bring energy off the bench. Nice bounce in his step, and 8 quick points upon entering. Mitchell forced a move with 14 minutes left, badly missing everything. Down 5 with 7:17 left, Mitchell missed 2 FT’s. Mitchell finished with 10 points, and 8 boards. He was 0 for 4 from the line.

 

9) I wanted to see some positive play from Cleare. He had some decent games last year (NCST, Clemson, @GaTech), but I thought it would be good for his confidence, and that of Terps fans if he did something tonight. Cleare got on the board with an early dunk. Late in the 1st half he set a nice screen at the top of the key to open up a driving lane for Wells. He followed that by getting on the floor for a loose ball. In the opening minutes of the 2nd half, Cleare missed another opportunity for points when he could not handle a pass in the interior. Cleare finished with 2 points, 3 boards, and 3 turnovers. I’m rooting for him, but I’m really reaching for positives.

 

10) After not playing vs. the Huskies, Dodd had 3 blocks vs. Abilene Christian. I was curious to see if he would get additional time tonight. He did get some early time, but after not finishing inside with 8 minutes left in the 1st half, we did not see much of him the rest of the night.

 

11) Peters has had some good passes in his first two games, and played better overall in the 2nd half vs. Abilene Christian, but he came into tonight with 7 turnovers against 4 assists. I wanted to see that ratio begin to change. We saw a beautiful drive and dish from Peters to Mitchell, for a dunk from Mitchell. Peters had back-to-back drives and scores at around the 3 minute mark of the 1st half. The 2nd basket giving MD the 34-32 lead. Very smooth, and under control as he went to the basket. Taking a screen from Cleare, Peters drove the lane for another score, making it 53-45 OSU. Peters had a bad turnover at the 15 minute mark. Nice look from Peters to Wells in the paint. Peter got into double-figures, with another drive off the bounce. That basket made it 61-57. Loved seeing him continue to attack the basket. Beautiful 2 man game with Mitchell, getting MD within 4 (72-68). Peters finished with 10 points, 6 assists, and just 2 turnovers. His play was one positive of a bad night.

 

12) We said above that Coach Turgeon was disappointed with the 1st half effort. Turgeon noted that Peters was the only one attacking the Oregon State zone. He also mentioned that his MD program (and his prior programs at Wichita State, and Texas A&M) were built on defending and rebounding; and that MD was not doing either effectively. He could not have been happy coming out of half-time, and seeing Oregon State go on an 15-5 run over the first 3 minutes of the 2nd half.



#2 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:27 PM

Yeah, the dagger was the 15-5 run out of the gates to start the 2nd half, IMO. That just can't happen. 



#3 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:40 PM

What a horrid effort and bad loss to a bad team. I have about as much faith in Mark Turgeon's coaching abilities as I do Randy Edsall's....which is to say, zero. Both of them, along with Kevin Anderson, could be on the first bus out of College Park for all I care. So fed up right now.



#4 BSLMattJergensen

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:41 PM

This team is soft.

 

I was very surprised to see MD win the rebounding margin tonight because they were repeatedly beaten to loose balls most of the night. The defense isn't physical enough for my liking. I don't see on the ball defenders close out penetration or dictate where ballhandlers should go and I didn't see strong rotations from help side.

 

Transition defense was atrocious. No one stops the ball or turns to see the ball after made baskets. 

 

Offensively they did a decent job attacking the 2-3 match up. Drives, screen the zone, penetrate and pitch were used with effectiveness. It hardly matters though when you can't get a stop and you simply trade buckets every trip.


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#5 mweb08

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 08:52 PM

I was behind watching with the dvr, but needless to say a very disappointing game. Peters showed promise, but the point guard issues on this team are pretty serious IMO. Also, the bigs can't defend the rim our finish around the rim that well. At last Mitchell shows effort and makes some plays. I've already lost a fair amount of my optimism for this squad.



#6 Oriole85

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:32 PM

What a horrid effort and bad loss to a bad team. I have about as much faith in Mark Turgeon's coaching abilities as I do Randy Edsall's....which is to say, zero. Both of them, along with Kevin Anderson, could be on the first bus out of College Park for all I care. So fed up right now.

This loss as bad for you as say the Syracuse one in football? I think Turgeon deserves a bit more rope if only because there's more games in cbb, not to mention his recruiting class (which I even said could hurt him if he can't win since the caliber of players are good)


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#7 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:34 PM

It's hard to compare the magnitude of losses between football and basketball.  But both losses were to inferior (IMO) opponents at home and both losses are inexcusable. 

 

Fortunately Edsall managed to somewhat mitigate the loss on Saturday -- we will see what the bball team can do.


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#8 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:46 PM

This loss as bad for you as say the Syracuse one in football? I think Turgeon deserves a bit more rope if only because there's more games in cbb, not to mention his recruiting class (which I even said could hurt him if he can't win since the caliber of players are good)

 

Might be worse because, even though it's hard to compare, I think Oregon State is a lesser team than Syracuse. Plus, the BB team has less margin for error to make the tournament than the football team did to make a bowl game, so this loss could very easily come back to haunt them later....whereas the football team bounced back from their ugly loss to make a bowl. Somewhere the BB team is going to need a couple of VA Tech-like upsets to reach their goal....and I have no idea where those might come from.

 

Mostly, I'm just really bummed that for the second season in a row I'm probably going to come away very disappointed because I grossly overrated how good they were.



#9 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:48 PM

Yea, these guys have a habit of tricking me.

 

Cleare and Faust are huge disappointments. 

 

At least Peters looks legit when the behemoth class joins next year.


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

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#10 Oriole85

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:52 PM

Might be worse because, even though it's hard to compare, I think Oregon State is a lesser team than Syracuse. Plus, the BB team has less margin for error to make the tournament than the football team did to make a bowl game, so this loss could very easily come back to haunt them later....whereas the football team bounced back from their ugly loss to make a bowl. Somewhere the BB team is going to need a couple of VA Tech-like upsets to reach their goal....and I have no idea where those might come from.

 

Mostly, I'm just really bummed that for the second season in a row I'm probably going to come away very disappointed because I grossly overrated how good they were.

Hard to compare for sure, I think Turgeon has more of a chance to make up for this game than Edsall did. Even if Edsall wins the final two games, they're still going to a bad bowl game most likely. Making the Tourney would be a bigger deal IMO especially since MD is a basketball school. Not sure how tight you think the margin is, 68 teams make it, you're allowed some bad losses. One game any way you slice it unless it's at the end of the season in cbb means less than a single game in cfb. That said, this is a bad loss and it's harder to be optimistic.


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#11 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:00 PM

Hard to compare for sure, I think Turgeon has more of a chance to make up for this game than Edsall did. Even if Edsall wins the final two games, they're still going to a bad bowl game most likely. Making the Tourney would be a bigger deal IMO especially since MD is a basketball school. Not sure how tight you think the margin is, 68 teams make it, you're allowed some bad losses. One game any way you slice it unless it's at the end of the season in cbb means less than a single game in cfb. That said, this is a bad loss and it's harder to be optimistic.

 

I will say that I think "quality wins" tend to outweigh "bad losses" with the selection committee. But I just don't see how this team is going to collect those quality wins. I mean, they really haven't looked that good in any game so far. The 1-point UConn loss doesn't look bad on paper, but the Huskies let them back in that game as much as MD fought their way back, IMO. And while the 29-0 run against Abilene Christian was impressive, they looked like crap up until that point. There's talented pieces, but this just isn't a good team....which goes back to what I said earlier. That falls on Turgeon.



#12 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:01 PM

Hard to compare for sure, I think Turgeon has more of a chance to make up for this game than Edsall did. Even if Edsall wins the final two games, they're still going to a bad bowl game most likely. Making the Tourney would be a bigger deal IMO especially since MD is a basketball school. Not sure how tight you think the margin is, 68 teams make it, you're allowed some bad losses. One game any way you slice it unless it's at the end of the season in cbb means less than a single game in cfb. That said, this is a bad loss and it's harder to be optimistic.


You knew going into the season MD figured to be a bubble team. A bubble team in the best conference, so there are opportunities for good wins... but a bubble team all the same, whose biggest issue (PG play) became an even greater liability with Allen's injury.

If MD finishes 7th in ACC play as projected, they will have a shot at the tournament... but they've already lost to UConn on a neutral floor (not a bad loss at all, but a missed opportunity at a quality win)... you've now lost to a team projected to finish 10th in the Pac 12. A major conference opponent, so it makes the loss less embarrassing, but if you are finishing 7th in the ACC... losing to Oregon State will hurt later.

Most people will project - with reason - MD to lose at Ohio State. That's 3 OOC losses already, without a quality win.

Tulsa at home, George Washington at the BB&T...  Marist, Loyola Marymount, Providence / Vanderbilt / La Salle at the Paradise Jam.... you might find 1 or 2 RPI 100 wins there (not Marist obviously)... but none of them are definitively Top 100. Several should be Top 150 though.

Which means, unless you upset Ohio State...  your tournament resume will be almost completely what you do in ACC play. If you exceed expectations, you are in. If you don't, you won't.

A loss in November does not preclude MD from making the tournament, but it could certainly hurt come March.


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#13 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:02 PM

I will say that I think "quality wins" tend to outweigh "bad losses" with the selection committee. But I just don't see how this team is going to collect those quality wins. I mean, they really haven't looked that good in any game so far. The 1-point UConn loss doesn't look bad on paper, but the Huskies let them back in that game as much as MD fought their way back, IMO. And while the 29-0 run against Abilene Christian was impressive, they looked like crap up until that point. There's talented pieces, but this just isn't a good team....which goes back to what I said earlier. That falls on Turgeon.

 

Agreed. Even if they pull off a marquee win or two (MD beat Duke last year), they look poised to lose too many bad games that it still won't matter. Unless this team can pull a 180 and really start playing well, I just don't see it happening again this year. Peters is the WC though, and getting Allen back. If they can solidify the 1, and get on a groove, it could happen. We'll see how it plays out.



#14 Oriole85

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:06 PM

I will say that I think "quality wins" tend to outweigh "bad losses" with the selection committee. But I just don't see how this team is going to collect those quality wins. I mean, they really haven't looked that good in any game so far. The 1-point UConn loss doesn't look bad on paper, but the Huskies let them back in that game as much as MD fought their way back, IMO. And while the 29-0 run against Abilene Christian was impressive, they looked like crap up until that point. There's talented pieces, but this just isn't a good team....which goes back to what I said earlier. That falls on Turgeon.

Same way they beat VT, you did say(as did I) that they didn't have much of a chance that game. Only Zack thought that game was winnable (which I thought he wrong on so I have to give him credit). I think it's even easier in basketball than football to have these type of upsets. Not a great start to the season, the UConn loss doesn't bother me too much. Yeah they had a chance and a win would've been nice, could ultimately keep them out of the Tourney, but it's this king of game against Oregon State that bothers me more. Not sure I agree with you entirely that Oregon State loss is less acceptable than Syracuse but you have maybe right.


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#15 Markus

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:24 PM

This loss as bad for you as say the Syracuse one in football? I think Turgeon deserves a bit more rope if only because there's more games in cbb, not to mention his recruiting class (which I even said could hurt him if he can't win since the caliber of players are good)


I'd say I'm at this point as well, though I'm really not all that far off from joining BoB and getting the Bunsen burner really lit under Turg's seat.

Lemme get two claps and a Ric Flair


#16 Oriole85

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:38 PM

I'd say I'm at this point as well, though I'm really not all that far off from joining BoB and getting the Bunsen burner really lit under Turg's seat.

Not there yet with Turge. Progress last year, recruiting class this year, a few more bad losses, I might be there as well. It took a lot for me to turn on Edsall and the VT result, negated the Syracuse/Wake losses marginally for me.


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#17 DuffMan

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 06:26 AM

Can we get some sort of hybrid coach that has Turgeons recruiting skills pared with Gary's coaching skills?



#18 glenn__davis

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:55 AM

I think the performance of the football team was worse against Syracuse, but the loss against Oregon State was worse for the bball team, if that makes any sense.  Partly because I think the Syracuse football program is better than the Oregon State basketball program, partly because I have higher standards for the basketball program than the football program.



#19 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:02 AM

Washington Post: Morning review: Terps abandon defense
http://www.washingto...o-oregon-state/



#20 Oriole85

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:14 AM

I think the performance of the football team was worse against Syracuse, but the loss against Oregon State was worse for the bball team, if that makes any sense.  Partly because I think the Syracuse football program is better than the Oregon State basketball program, partly because I have higher standards for the basketball program than the football program.

I get what you are saying. My only issue is a Pre-Thanksgiving loss in basketball is a lot different than an conference loss at home in football. In basketball, you'll have multiple chances to correct it; in football, you are dealing with a smaller margin of error. OTOH, easier to make a bowl game than the Tourney even for Maryland football than Maryland basketball. (there were years this wasn't true however).

 

In terms of your basketball vs football standards argument, that's completely valid. All things being equal, you expect more from the basketball program since this is a basketball school.


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