64 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

I also think 82 games + a 2-month playoffs is way too much for as physically demanding as hockey is. Obviously from a revenue standpoint, that won't decrease. Still boggles my mind that these guys can play as long as they do, with as physical as it is. Just goes to show, a lot of this modern PC stuff is just in people's heads.

Outside of the NFL, all sports have a season that is too long.

[JeremyStrain]

There' isn't much I would say in this thread that Jeremy hasn't already brought up,  great points all around.

 

You don't like Joe B?   Locker is quite annoying and I wouldn't miss him, but I think Joe B. does a heck of a job calling games.

 

I like him ok, but I think Thorne does his role more than Locker. I can't stand Laughlin though, not just on-air. I'll leave it there.

[JeremyStrain]

Pretty sure guys like Bob Ryan and Wilbon know hockey.

 

I even think I have heard Melrose say there is too  much...but not 100% sure.

 

The Olympic hockey ratings are way higher than NHL...I get that its the Olympics but a lot of people prefer that game.

 

Haha, Wilbon is a prime example for my argument. He knows NOTHING about hockey outside of being a general sports fan. He's knowledgeable about sports overall, but his hockey knowledge is less than people on this board.

 

I dunno, I don't think I've ever heard him talk about it really. I know he doesn't like the thuggish attacks and cheap shots, but that is far different from fighting.

 

Apples to Oranges though, they are higher because it's the Olympics, not cause it's international ice hockey. What are the ratings like for regular international games? They can't even get on "The Ocho" cause they are SOOO boring.

 

Promise you, it's not more wide open and free flowing like people like to give the narrative of. It's sloppier because the longer passes miss and take forever to track back down, it's more dead play in the neutral zone and less action at either end.

 

It's like I said earlier, if you aren't a fan of hockey now, then you just aren't a fan of hockey, there is nothing wrong with that, but you aren't going to become one by changing all the rules and alienating people that are fans now. They don't HAVE to bring in casual fans, or different fans, they are doing fine as is, it's never going to be the NFL here, it's not a US type sport, but it does ok for itself.

[Oriole85]

Sure...But its also a more free flowing, better game to watch.

 

Whatever the reasoning is(I don't know because I don't pay attention), it is a game that more people seem to like.

 

Will die hard hockey fans prefer it?  I don't know...But if you want to grow the sport, you have to look beyond the die hard fan and bring more people into it.

 

If not, it will never have the remote chance it has to be on the level of the 3 main sports(in this country at least).

I think people prefer it because it's different and you see it once every four years for the most part. I hate hockey All-Star games because they are too high scoring. I think if the rinks were closed more in the Olympics, you'd likely be looking at many more goals. On the contrast, if you opened it up more in the NHL, casual fans would even dislike it more. One of the major gripes about hockey from US-based fans is the lack of scoring.

 

Yes, you want to grow the sport, but you don't want to severely alter it where it's not hockey anymore. Like Jeremy was saying (and I'm not trying to pick on you), many of the people proposing these alterations wouldn't watch anyways. It reminds me of when I see from more casual/non-baseball fans suggestions like limiting the number of pickoff attempts, not allowing intentional walks. Maybe baseball could make it really exciting like with the hockey shootout by playing the 10th and if neither team scores, having a homerun derby.

 

Hockey doesn't have much of a chance of catching up to football, baseball, or basketball really much at all, just looking at the ratings. It will continue to have it's legions of fans, who are great, but will never have the mass appeal or close to that of those sports.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I haven't read any real, hard analysis on the issue - but logically, I just wonder if the KHL will ever truly become a powerhouse? Like the EPL for Soccer? I mean, the passion over there is much more so than here in the US. Canada is obviously crazed for hockey, so the more the NHL invests in Canada (to the chagrin of Bettman), the more safe the NHL is. Still, I wonder how far fetched it is that the KHL might some day gain some serious traction.

[You Play to Win the Game]

BTW, every other sport could sure learn a TON about how the NHL handles their replays. I also like how Shanahan does videos for the suspensions/fines, even though some of his conclusions are debatable. I like the transparency.

[Oriole85]

BTW, every other sport could sure learn a TON about how the NHL handles their replays. I also like how Shanahan does videos for the suspensions/fines, even though some of his conclusions are debatable. I like the transparency.

Absolutely, I've only seen a few of them since I'm not too into hockey especially non-Caps, but I really like how Shannahan breaks it down. I'd love to see the other sports be as transparent with their on-field related suspensions, not just issuing carefully worded vague press releases.

 

In terms of the replays, I think I remember seeing a behind-the-scenes thing on how they handle it in Toronto. I'd love for baseball to be as transparent with this.

[Oriole85]

It's like I said earlier, if you aren't a fan of hockey now, then you just aren't a fan of hockey, there is nothing wrong with that, but you aren't going to become one by changing all the rules and alienating people that are fans now. They don't HAVE to bring in casual fans, or different fans, they are doing fine as is, it's never going to be the NFL here, it's not a US type sport, but it does ok for itself.

I think this is really the point here. You don't alienate your base to attract the polar opposite, who won't likely care much for your product anyways,

 

I don't care much for soccer for example, there is almost nothing the MLS or FIFA could do that would get me more interested in the sport. The best thing is having a more competitive US team but I'm really only watching once every 4 years anyways.

[PatrickDougherty]

I think this is really the point here. You don't alienate your base to attract the polar opposite, who won't likely care much for your product anyways,

 

I don't care much for soccer for example, there is almost nothing the MLS or FIFA could do that would get me more interested in the sport. The best thing is having a more competitive US team but I'm really only watching once every 4 years anyways.

I think what stops me is the lack of scoring opportunities. If I felt like shots had a reasonable chance to go in, or that players were shooting with urgency, or if there were more fast breaks, I would watch. As it stands now, nobody is shooting in traffic and most goals come from poking around the crease, which just isn't as exciting for me, the marginal fan. I don't feel like that's a huge change, since it's really more of changing the perception of the game rather than on-ice reality, and think it can be accomplished by a few minor tweaks, like limiting goalie equipment.

[PatrickDougherty]

BTW, every other sport could sure learn a TON about how the NHL handles their replays. I also like how Shanahan does videos for the suspensions/fines, even though some of his conclusions are debatable. I like the transparency.

Definitely. Why baseball doesn't adopt some mixture of the NHL's central booth and the line judgement in tennis is beyond me.

[Markus]

I haven't read any real, hard analysis on the issue - but logically, I just wonder if the KHL will ever truly become a powerhouse? Like the EPL for Soccer? I mean, the passion over there is much more so than here in the US. Canada is obviously crazed for hockey, so the more the NHL invests in Canada (to the chagrin of Bettman), the more safe the NHL is. Still, I wonder how far fetched it is that the KHL might some day gain some serious traction.

 

I dunno how much traction the KHL could really gain.  I've mentioned before that I used to be a pretty knowledgeable hockey guy and Caps follower but since I've started doing fantasy my overall knowledge of the game has increased ten-fold.  If the KHL poaches a lot of top NHL guys and gets them to forgo a ton of money to go play there I think people would perk up but I don't know if it would be enough to get a US-based network (maybe NHL Network aside) to show a fair-slate of games.

 

BTW, every other sport could sure learn a TON about how the NHL handles their replays. I also like how Shanahan does videos for the suspensions/fines, even though some of his conclusions are debatable. I like the transparency.

This x 400 billion.

[Oriole85]

I think what stops me is the lack of scoring opportunities. If I felt like shots had a reasonable chance to go in, or that players were shooting with urgency, or if there were more fast breaks, I would watch. As it stands now, nobody is shooting in traffic and most goals come from poking around the crease, which just isn't as exciting for me, the marginal fan. I don't feel like that's a huge change, since it's really more of changing the perception of the game rather than on-ice reality, and think it can be accomplished by a few minor tweaks, like limiting goalie equipment.

That's more soccer to me, you have a goal the size of a single family house and it looks like on a breakaway the player has a decent shot and misses by a mile.

 

I think there's already less goalie equipment from the result of the lockout a decade ago than there is today.

[Oriole85]

Definitely. Why baseball doesn't adopt some mixture of the NHL's central booth and the line judgement in tennis is beyond me.

Baseball is having the replays reviewed in NYC next year. I like how all goals can be reviewed, smart move of the NFL to adopt that on scoring plays. Tennis you still have to challenge it right? 

[PatrickDougherty]

Baseball is having the replays reviewed in NYC next year. I like how all goals can be reviewed, smart move of the NFL to adopt that on scoring plays. Tennis you still have to challenge it right? 

You're right, and yes, you do have to challenge it in tennis. I meant that baseball should automatically review all fair/foul calls down the line in NY using something similar to the tennis technology.

[Oriole85]

You're right, and yes, you do have to challenge it in tennis. I meant that baseball should automatically review all fair/foul calls down the line in NY using something similar to the tennis technology.

Not quite familiar with how it works in tennis. Maybe they'll eventually review all fair/foul calls, you'd hate to see a key call missed because a manager has already used a challenge.

[FlavaDave10]

Haven't been here on a while, so here's my two cents:

1. Relocate the Florida Panthers to Canada. Accept the fact that trying to have two hockey teams in the state of Florida was a really bad decision. No American cities that could be considered "Eastern" jump out at me as far as deserving cities, so give it to Canada. 

 

2. Stricter rules for fighting. How in God's name the NHL can say that there's no rules that allows them to suspend Ray Emery is beyond me. If a player fights someone who is clearly not willing to fight, that should be grounds for a suspension. If you punch someone in the back of the head, that should be grounds for a suspension. Fighting is a necessary evil in hockey, as it is the way that hockey polices itself. There's a huge difference between "fighting" and "being reckless". 

 

3. Make divisions that make geographical sense. How they can put Florida and Canada in the same division is beyond me. That's way too brutal of a roadtrip to do multiple times each season, sometimes without an off-day in between. 

 

4. I love how strict the NHL has been on head hunters, but they need to be even more strict. 

 

5. Gary Bettman needs to go away and never come back. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm not convinced that fighting shouldn't be totally eliminated... it seems archaic, barbaric and draconian. I think that day is coming, and probably soon. I understand the purpose it serves - but it's well worth the price to pay to eliminate the injuries and goon'ish nature from the game. I think it's a net win at the end of the day. And yes, how Emery didn't get any suspension for the other night is just absolutely outlandish. Shows that, once again, the NHL is all talk.

[FlavaDave10]

I'm not convinced that fighting shouldn't be totally eliminated... it seems archaic, barbaric and draconian. I think that day is coming, and probably soon. I understand the purpose it serves - but it's well worth the price to pay to eliminate the injuries and goon'ish nature from the game. I think it's a net win at the end of the day. And yes, how Emery didn't get any suspension for the other night is just absolutely outlandish. Shows that, once again, the NHL is all talk.

 

Without fighting, there'd be a lot more cheap shots. I'd be willing to bet that cheap shots injure players a lot more frequently than fights. It's just magnified when players get injured in fights because of all the trolls who think fighting is evil and should be banned. The instigator/agitator rules have really cut down on the overly aggressive fighting. 

[JeremyStrain]

Without fighting, there'd be a lot more cheap shots. I'd be willing to bet that cheap shots injure players a lot more frequently than fights. It's just magnified when players get injured in fights because of all the trolls who think fighting is evil and should be banned. The instigator/agitator rules have really cut down on the overly aggressive fighting. 

 

Agreed. They will re-work the rule for agitator this offseason too. Much more severe penalty for engaging an unwilling opponent. I'm guessing something like a separate major (so double major if the opponent is unwilling) so that the other team gets a 5 min. power play, along with a multi-game suspension.

 

The Holtby incident might get something added about goalies specifically like no one is to enter the opponent's crease, so if someone goes INTO his crease to get him, it's a major suspension. If the goalie comes out to meet the guy, then they are willingly joining the fight.

 

If not something, there is nothing to stop a thug from fighting a goalie that is putting up a shutout, and taking him out of the game, or at least shaking him up. Can you imagine how the playoffs the last few years against the NYR and Lundquist could have been?

[FlavaDave10]

BTW, every other sport could sure learn a TON about how the NHL handles their replays. I also like how Shanahan does videos for the suspensions/fines, even though some of his conclusions are debatable. I like the transparency.

 

That's the one thing the NHL does much better than everybody else. I also love how the NHL is ahead of the curve as far as player safety. Shanahan can be a bit stupid at times (i.e. not suspending Ray Emery), but I think he's pretty fair for the most part.