16 replies to this topic

[BSLMikeLowe]

I was initially going to add this to the UVA game summary thread, but I think it's a topic that we might want to discuss separately.

 

Maryland grad Van Pelt blasts students for 'home-field indifference' on ESPN

 

This sort of parlays with the WSJ article Oriole85 posted in the NCAA Section about declining student attendance at football games throughout the country. The Terps' next home game is vs. Clemson, who could potentially be undefeated and ranked #3 coming in, so I'm sure the students will come out for that one, and stay there as long as the game is competitive. But I was also very surprised to see a lot of empty seats in the second half Saturday.

 

The article also links to an interview Van Pelt did with The Diamondback in Sept. Although this crosses into basketball, he raised an interesting question about attendance for games this season. Whether real or perceived, many assume there are a lot of students that attend sporting events (including basketball games) simply to accumulate the "points" they need to get a ticket to the Duke game. With no Duke game this year, could student attendance at all games suffer? Obviously there are a lot of empty seats during the non-conference portion of the schedule for several reasons, not the least of which is that school is usually not in session. But could we also see more empty student seats for lesser ACC opponents?

[BSLChrisStoner]

The College Football Week 8 thread has links to a Yahoo article which shows horrible crowds at TCU & UMass (not you would expect any crowd for UMass)....

O85 also linked to a WSJ article about declining student attendance at Georgia.

So, I don't think this is an issue limited to MD.... but I do think it is an issue MD is facing.... especially in basketball. I cringe during December games after the Winter break... but at-least you can understand it with the students being out. You can also make valid excuses during early evening games where parking is an issue. But when you see 9pm League games with Comcast not full? Horrible. Same thing with 12pm Saturday games.

Football? I think the move to the Big Ten will end some of the apathy next year... there will be curiosity, and increased interest. After that it is going to take sustained winning.

 

I'm glad someone with Van Pelt's profile drew attention to it though. If MD wants to be significant going forward, everyone with a vested interest in MD has to help make sure things that can be controlled are controlled.

[Oriole85]

I was initially going to add this to the UVA game summary thread, but I think it's a topic that we might want to discuss separately.

 

Maryland grad Van Pelt blasts students for 'home-field indifference' on ESPN

 

This sort of parlays with the WSJ article Oriole85 posted in the NCAA Section about declining student attendance at football games throughout the country. The Terps' next home game is vs. Clemson, who could potentially be undefeated and ranked #3 coming in, so I'm sure the students will come out for that one, and stay there as long as the game is competitive. But I was also very surprised to see a lot of empty seats in the second half Saturday.

 

The article also links to an interview Van Pelt did with The Diamondback in Sept. Although this crosses into basketball, he raised an interesting question about attendance for games this season. Whether real or perceived, many assume there are a lot of students that attend sporting events (including basketball games) simply to accumulate the "points" they need to get a ticket to the Duke game. With no Duke game this year, could student attendance at all games suffer? Obviously there are a lot of empty seats during the non-conference portion of the schedule for several reasons, not the least of which is that school is usually not in session. But could we also see more empty student seats for lesser ACC opponents?

I saw that article (actually that's where I saw the WSJ article), didn't want to touch it after some of my previous attendance comments created a firestorm. I agree with you on Clemson, too bad it's not a night game and they can't do a real blackout. The FSU game was a good some years back (despite the result).

 

I was at the game on Saturday, not the greatest weather, definitely noticed a difference after halftime. Attendance as a whole was OK at best, bad weather was in the forecast all week so I think that played a small part. BOB, you were right not too many UVA fans, would've expected more. It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

 

Good question on the "scan and leave," I think students will go because they want to accumulate points in the event that there is a more marquee game. But probably overall less, depending on how the team does (that's the most important factor more than "studying," weather, etc. I think it will pick up next year with the B1G move, but who knows.

[BSLMikeLowe]

So, I don't think this is an issue limited to MD.... but I do think it is an issue MD is facing.... especially in basketball. I cringe during December games after the Winter break... but at-least you can understand it with the students being out. You can also make valid excuses during early evening games where parking is an issue. But when you see 9pm League games with Comcast not full? Horrible. Same thing with 12pm Saturday games.

Football? I think the move to the Big Ten will end some of the apathy next year... there will be curiosity, and increased interest. After that it is going to take sustained winning.

 

I'm glad someone with Van Pelt's profile drew attention to it though. If MD wants to be significant going forward, everyone with a vested interest in MD has to help make sure things that can be controlled are controlled.

 

When I lived in Baltimore I attended several basketball games, and knew several people in the area with season tickets. Those weeknight 9pm tipoffs were not so popular because you usually didn't get home until after midnight. Of course similar sentiment could be said for the 7pm tips with regard to being able to get down there in time. The people I knew skipped a lot of the non-marquee weeknight games and tried to sell or give away their tickets.

 

I think your point about football and the need for sustained winning applies to basketball too. When I was still there, I would have loved to have season tickets, but I had to go on a waiting list that was predicated on monetary donations as much as it was "waiting" and never even got close to being able to buy season tickets before I moved in 2007. Now in recent seasons UM has taken out banner ads on The Sun's website offering Duke/UNC tickets if you also bought a package of other games, an unimaginable scenario a few years ago. I'm sure some of that was due to the recession and the anemic economy since then, but mostly I think the basketball program, much like the football program shortly after Fridge's three double-digit winning seasons, had a staleness around it.

 

Both programs now appear to be on a positive trajectory, but I still think that the fans are going to wait until they see results rather than buy tickets on speculation. The B1G move will generate some novelty depending on who it is (I doubt just any old Big Ten team by itself will draw a crowd, even in the first year), but only sustained winning will keep it up.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I saw that article (actually that's where I saw the WSJ article), didn't want to touch it after some of my previous attendance comments created a firestorm. I agree with you on Clemson, too bad it's not a night game and they can't do a real blackout. The FSU game was a good some years back (despite the result).

 

I was at the game on Saturday, not the greatest weather, definitely noticed a difference after halftime. Attendance as a whole was OK at best, bad weather was in the forecast all week so I think that played a small part. BOB, you were right not too many UVA fans, would've expected more. It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

 

Good question on the "scan and leave," I think students will go because they want to accumulate points in the event that there is a more marquee game. But probably overall less, depending on how the team does (that's the most important factor more than "studying," weather, etc. I think it will pick up next year with the B1G move, but who knows.

 

I got a chuckle reading that WSJ article because one particular part about the Georgia students reminded me of when I had football tickets. During those early-season games against FCS teams on several occasions I remember heading back to the car and encountering people in the lots who had tickets, but never went into the game. And in many cases back then, unlike today, they couldn't even get the game on TV out there....they just wanted to tailgate.

[Oriole85]

When I lived in Baltimore I attended several basketball games, and knew several people in the area with season tickets. Those weeknight 9pm tipoffs were not so popular because you usually didn't get home until after midnight. Of course similar sentiment could be said for the 7pm tips with regard to being able to get down there in time. The people I knew skipped a lot of the non-marquee weeknight games and tried to sell or give away their tickets.

 

I think your point about football and the need for sustained winning applies to basketball too. When I was still there, I would have loved to have season tickets, but I had to go on a waiting list that was predicated on monetary donations as much as it was "waiting" and never even got close to being able to buy season tickets before I moved in 2007. Now in recent seasons UM has taken out banner ads on The Sun's website offering Duke/UNC tickets if you also bought a package of other games, an unimaginable scenario a few years ago. I'm sure some of that was due to the recession and the anemic economy since then, but mostly I think the basketball program, much like the football program shortly after Fridge's three double-digit winning seasons, had a staleness around it.

 

Both programs now appear to be on a positive trajectory, but I still think that the fans are going to wait until they see results rather than buy tickets on speculation. The B1G move will generate some novelty depending on who it is (I doubt just any old Big Ten team by itself will draw a crowd, even in the first year), but only sustained winning will keep it up.

Yeah I couldn't believe it when first there were many empty seats for OOC games and then you could get single game tickets.

 

Agreed on winning being the main reason, one of those victim of your own success type things. They haven't been in the tournament since GW's second-to-last year and haven't advanced to the second weekend in about a decade.

 

I don't think there's a game atleast yet that will draw the same attention as Duke did.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I don't think there's a game atleast yet that will draw the same attention as Duke did.

 

No, not initially. Like Van Pelt said, the rivalries will reveal themselves over time. In basketball there is a little bit of history with Michigan State (they knocked the Terps out of the NCAAs twice, and have had at least two regular season meetings that I recall) and they are usually a decent program, so I'm sure they will draw some interest. In terms of program history and just the general attitude they have, Indiana is the closest thing in the B1G to Duke, but that would also take time to build, if it ever does (although I'm sure the first time they play will bring back some nostalgia from the Championship Game for Terps fans). Even though they are football schools, OSU and Michigan have had good basketball teams recently, and they don't seem to have the sort of heated rivalry with each other that they do in football, so maybe one of them will catch on with MD. In a way, I think waiting to see what develops in terms of a rivalry is part of the fun....it could be someone you never even expect.

[Oriole85]

No, not initially. Like Van Pelt said, the rivalries will reveal themselves over time. In basketball there is a little bit of history with Michigan State (they knocked the Terps out of the NCAAs twice) and they are usually a decent program, so I'm sure they will draw some interest. In terms of program history and just the general attitude they have, Indiana is the closest thing in the B1G to Duke, but that would also take time to build, if it ever does. Even though they are football schools, OSU and Michigan have had good basketball teams recently, and they don't seem to have the sort of heated rivalry with each other that they do in football, so maybe one of them will catch on with MD. In a way, I think waiting to see what develops in terms of a rivalry is part of the fun....it could be someone you never even expect.

I think proximity will make it tougher for that kind of rivalry, but it's definitely possible over time. Penn St would be an obvious choice if they were good at basketball. I think rivalries will develop though. Like you said, it will be fun watching it develop.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I think proximity will make it tougher for that kind of rivalry, but it's definitely possible over time. Penn St would be an obvious choice if they were good at basketball. I think rivalries will develop though. Like you said, it will be fun watching it develop.

I'm not so sure that proximity plays nearly as big a role in forming rivalries as it used to. Obviously part of developing a rivalry is having a certain level of interaction with the opposing fans. Nowadays, with social media and a more transient population (especially in the DC area) being geographically close to your rival isn't as vital.

[Mike in STL]

It will certainly take time to develop a rival. But I dont see there being any problem selling out comcast for Indiana, Ohio St, Mich.St. or any top ten team that rolls in. Like this Clemson game coming up in football. not a rivalry game, but peolple will turn out hoping to see an upset.

[Oriole85]

I'm not so sure that proximity plays nearly as big a role in forming rivalries as it used to. Obviously part of developing a rivalry is having a certain level of interaction with the opposing fans. Nowadays, with social media and a more transient population (especially in the DC area) being physically close to your rival isn't as vital.

Great point on social media, I still think physical interaction is important though. Not sure how many Mich St alums are in the Beltway area? I'm sure there's some since every big university is going to have a presence.

[Oriole85]

It will certainly take time to develop a rival. But I dont see there being any problem selling out comcast for Indiana, Ohio St, Mich.St. or any top ten team that rolls in. Like this Clemson game coming up in football. not a rivalry game, but peolple will turn out hoping to see an upset.

Agreed, I was at the Illinois game for the B1G Challenge a few years ago, they had a decent showing but nothing unbelieveable. Byrd is going to be the bigger problem IMO. However, I don't think it's going to be as big as some people think though after the initial honeymoon period.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Great point on social media, I still think physical interaction is important though. Not sure how many Mich St alums are in the Beltway area? I'm sure there's some since every big university is going to have a presence.

 

If you keep your football tickets, you'll get the answer to your question on Nov 15, 2014.

[Oriole85]

If you keep your football tickets, you'll get the answer to your question on Nov 15, 2014.

I think they'll get a decent amount of visitors the first time around as part of the novelty factor; the second time around assuming Mich St is around status quo, I think we'll be a better indicator.

 

I didn't renew my tickets this year because I knew I would be missing some games including WVU(cousin's wedding). Don't worry not fairweather, I renewed after a bunch of 2-10 seasons. Good chance I'll go to atleast one more. Not sure if I'll get them next year but possible, I really enjoy going to the games.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I think they'll get a decent amount of visitors the first time around as part of the novelty factor; the second time around assuming Mich St is around status quo, I think we'll be a better indicator.

 

I didn't renew my tickets this year because I knew I would be missing some games including WVU(cousin's wedding). Don't worry not fairweather, I renewed after a bunch of 2-10 seasons. Good chance I'll go to atleast one more. Not sure if I'll get them next year but possible, I really enjoy going to the games.

 

I always had a blast too. I had gone to individual games before, but I had the season tickets from 2001-06, so the worst I saw was back-to-back 5-6 seasons. Just as another example of how quickly things changed there that relates to my story about basketball tickets....after the 2002 season, Friedgen's second year with double-digit wins, when I went to renew for 2003 the ticket rep did a major sales job on me to join the Terrapin Club. One of the selling points she made, other than being able to get on the basketball waiting list, was that I would need the "points" you accumulated through donations to keep my same seats for football (which were okay, but not prime seats by any means). Because back then they actually made public how many season tix they were selling (because as long as the number is going up, who doesn't want to publicize that?) I believed it and joined. Boy, was I a sucker. 

[Oriole85]

I always had a blast too. I had gone to individual games before, but I had the season tickets from 2001-06, so the worst I saw was back-to-back 5-6 seasons. Just as another example of how quickly things changed there that relates to my story about basketball tickets....after the 2002 season, Friedgen's second year with double-digit wins, when I went to renew for 2003 the ticket rep did a major sales job on me to join the Terrapin Club. One of the selling points she made, other than being able to get on the basketball waiting list, was that I would need the "points" you accumulated through donations to keep my same seats for football (which were okay, but not prime seats by any means). Because back then they actually made public how many season tix they were selling (because as long as the number is going up, who doesn't want to publicize that?) I believed it and joined. Boy, was I a sucker. 

In fairness to you, that's a hindsight 20/20 thing. Who knows what would've happened if the Terps would've built on Fridge's initial success? I think they truly believed they were heading to the next level with building the suites.

[BSLMikeLowe]

In fairness to you, that's a hindsight 20/20 thing. Who knows what would've happened if the Terps would've built on Fridge's initial success? I think they truly believed they were heading to the next level with building the suites.

 

I'm sure they truly did believe that, it's just ironic to see how it ended up. At least the annual donations went towards scholarships for student-athletes, so I don't feel bad about that part at all.