66 replies to this topic

[Pedro Cerrano]

Some of my biggest arguments over on Foxhole (that didn't involve mweb ) were about Edsall.  I've been a staunch supporter and will remain a staunch supporter.

 

People loved Fridge because he was the big fat jolly alum who came along and immediately realized success (albeit with someone else's recruits).  Then there were a lot of bad years culminating in the 2-10 debacle.  A new regime came in and, with it, new leadership in the football program.  This happens all the time but people felt like Fridge for whatever reason had earned the right to leave on his own terms as if he were Gary Williams -- that's just not the case. 

 

This is only the 3rd year of the Edsall era and, despite limited success on the field, I can already see that the program is in much better hands.  I love what Edsall represents in terms of accountability and his work ethic, and what he expects out of his kids.  I'm sure the parents love that too and don't mind seeing their sons going to play for someone like that.

 

One final thought:  people get on Edsall for how he acted his first year here, but he was almost immediately cornered by the folks who loved Fridge.  Those same people give Fridge a pass when he announced, to nobody in particular, that he was "burning his Maryland degree" and was a "Yellow Jacket" or whatever nonsense he spewed. 

 

Talk about a double standard.

 

GO TERPS

[BSLMikeLowe]

 don't pretend to be an insider, but I know a few people on the periphery of the athletic department, and the things I hear from them are night and day when comparing Edsall to Friedgen.  Ralph treated people well if he thought they could be of benefit to him, otherwise you weren't getting the time of day from him.  Edsall tries to treat everyone with respect.  I've heard multiple examples of this.

 

I'm not really trying to change peoples' minds on Edsall.  At this point if you're not in his corner you're probably not going to be.  And frankly, while I think he's good at developing talent, I still have doubts about him as an X's and O's guy, and I think down the road that will lead to his dismissal, whenever that is.  But, he's really not the d-bag he was made out to be that first year.

 

Like you, I also knew several people close to the football program and UM athletics during the Friedgen era. He was the guy that a lot of people (the people for whom money does the talking) wanted to be the coach....and they wanted him long before he was actually hired. The fact that he made such an immediate impact on the program almost, but certainly not quite, put him in the Gary Williams Untouchable category in the eyes of many of the aforementioned people....if nothing else, they are very loyal, especially with fellow alums. And Ralph did reciprocate that loyalty and made himself very accessible to the boosters.

 

But it was clear that after the initial success the program dropped into mediocrity. I'm told there were several reasons for that. One is that slowly a significant rift developed between Fridge and Yow. It wasn't nearly as public as the one between her and Gary, but it was there. Basically Ralph was not getting a lot of the support and other things from Yow that he felt was either promised to him or that he had earned. Things like loosening admissions for a couple recruits that he felt could cut it academically if they had the right support. And to take that further, simply the investment (or lack thereof) the department made in academic support for the football team. There was also a contentious issue regarding the coaching staff and a bonus that they believed they were owed and not paid after the 2008 season...a lawsuit was actually explored, but never filed. And while he never truly vented about it publicly, Friedgen was never on board with the coach-in-waiting deal that James Franklin got....that was all Debbie Yow and her laying the groundwork to replace Friedgen, whether he was ready or not.

 

It was also apparent, I was told, that the rigors of being a head coach at that level, combined with another obvious issue he had, began to take a toll on Ralph and his health. The reason that there seemed to be so little energy around the program could probably be traced to a lack of energy in the head coach. He still had the passion for coaching football, and he still loved his players and his program.....the mind was willing, but the body could no longer keep up.

[Oriole85]

Like you, I also knew several people close to the football program and UM athletics during the Friedgen era. He was the guy that a lot of people (the people for whom money does the talking) wanted to be the coach....and they wanted him long before he was actually hired. The fact that he made such an immediate impact on the program almost, but certainly not quite, put him in the Gary Williams Untouchable category in the eyes of many of the aforementioned people....if nothing else, they are very loyal, especially with fellow alums. And Ralph did reciprocate that loyalty and made himself very accessible to the boosters.

 

But it was clear that after the initial success the program dropped into mediocrity. I'm told there were several reasons for that. One is that slowly a significant rift developed between Fridge and Yow. It wasn't nearly as public as the one between her and Gary, but it was there. Basically Ralph was not getting a lot of the support and other things from Yow that he felt was either promised to him or that he had earned. Things like loosening admissions for a couple recruits that he felt could cut it academically if they had the right support. And to take that further, simply the investment (or lack thereof) the department made in academic support for the football team. There was also a contentious issue regarding the coaching staff and a bonus that they believed they were owed and not paid after the 2008 season...a lawsuit was actually explored, but never filed. And while he never truly vented about it publicly, Friedgen was never on board with the coach-in-waiting deal that James Franklin got....that was all Debbie Yow and her laying the groundwork to replace Friedgen, whether he was ready or not.

 

It was also apparent, I was told, that the rigors of being a head coach at that level, combined with another obvious issue he had, began to take a toll on Ralph and his health. The reason that there seemed to be so little energy around the program could probably be traced to a lack of energy in the head coach. He still had the passion for coaching football, and he still loved his players and his program.....the mind was willing, but the body could no longer keep up.

There's no doubt in my mind his health and to a lesser extent, his age played a factor in his dismissal in not thinking he was the best fit for the long-term of the future after his great final season.

[bnickle]

I was fine with Fridge going. Things were  getting stale, so it's not like I have it out for Edsall because of loyalty for Fridge.

 

 

As someone pointed out earlier, Anderson said the goal was to go from good to great. In now way, then or no, is Edsall going from "good to great".

 

So you bring in a guy who was 74-70 and had a losing record in the Big East at UConn. Not only that he's a complete and total asshat. It's was a butcher of a hire then and remains so today.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I was fine with Fridge going. Things were  getting stale, so it's not like I have it out for Edsall because of loyalty for Fridge.

 

 

As someone pointed out earlier, Anderson said the goal was to go from good to great. In now way, then or no, is Edsall going from "good to great".

 

So you bring in a guy who was 74-70 and had a losing record in the Big East at UConn. Not only that he's a complete and total asshat. It's was a butcher of a hire then and remains so today.

 

Clearly Anderson set expectations that he did not, or could not, meet when hiring a coach (and did the same thing when it came time to replace Gary). Like I said earlier, I have my own doubts as to whether Edsall will ultimately get any better results than Fridge did. But I won't close the book on him just yet either.

[Oriole85]

I was fine with Fridge going. Things were  getting stale, so it's not like I have it out for Edsall because of loyalty for Fridge.

 

 

As someone pointed out earlier, Anderson said the goal was to go from good to great. In now way, then or no, is Edsall going from "good to great".

 

So you bring in a guy who was 74-70 and had a losing record in the Big East at UConn. Not only that he's a complete and total asshat. It's was a butcher of a hire then and remains so today.

He has more resources at Maryland and had to build up the UConn program, so the record there isn't totally relevant.

 

Now who would you have hired?

[Adam Wolff]

I think I partially agree with a handful of you.

 

Edsall was a douche when he was hired. No, it's not the same as Turgeon. Edsall basically spoke with disgust when describing the program before him. I don't give a damn about Ralph, it's just about having some class and not coming across as a snarky dbag. Whether he was right or wrong, he didn't handle his first year well.

 

Since then, it seems maybe someone coached him a bit on how to not seem so prickly, he's improved. His true character, which is good, has shown much more and he's proven himself as a coach a bit. He seems like overall a good guy that is taking the program in a good direction. It's about wins and losses now, but I think he's gotten passed the stuff from the beginning. I also think it's asinine to think he handled that first part of this relationship well. 

[Oriole85]

I think I partially agree with a handful of you.

 

Edsall was a douche when he was hired. No, it's not the same as Turgeon. Edsall basically spoke with disgust when describing the program before him. I don't give a damn about Ralph, it's just about having some class and not coming across as a snarky dbag. Whether he was right or wrong, he didn't handle his first year well.

 

Since then, it seems maybe someone coached him a bit on how to not seem so prickly, he's improved. His true character, which is good, has shown much more and he's proven himself as a coach a bit. He seems like overall a good guy that is taking the program in a good direction. It's about wins and losses now, but I think he's gotten passed the stuff from the beginning. I also think it's asinine to think he handled that first part of this relationship well. 

I believe the AD hired a PR firm, so that's where the "coaching" comes from. KA acknowledged that Edsall had an image problem and needed to improve on this front.

[BSLZackKiesel]

I believe the AD hired a PR firm, so that's where the "coaching" comes from. KA acknowledged that Edsall had an image problem and needed to improve on this front.

I don't want to completely give Edsall a pass, but you have to realize that he's coming from a program that was tiny in a non-football town and a non-football school in a fairly small conference. He didn't get nearly the media attention that he got at Maryland. He went from almost nothing to a major conference at a major school at a program that was coming off its best year in a long time. 

 

Now that he's learned to deal with the media and not say whatever pops into his head (something Rex Ryan still hasn't learned), he comes off as a better coach. Deep down, he's a good guy. He just didn't come off that way when he first came to College Park.

[glenn__davis]

One final thought:  people get on Edsall for how he acted his first year here, but he was almost immediately cornered by the folks who loved Fridge.  Those same people give Fridge a pass when he announced, to nobody in particular, that he was "burning his Maryland degree" and was a "Yellow Jacket" or whatever nonsense he spewed. 

 

No question.  People were turning on him after 3 games.  It was ridiculous.

 

I also think it's asinine to think he handled that first part of this relationship well. 

 

I don't believe anyone has said he handled it well, at least not from a PR standpoint.  I just don't think he came off as nearly the jerk that others did.  I do believe he should have left certain things unsaid, and that he has done a much better job of filtering himself after that first year.

[Oriole85]

Clearly Anderson set expectations that he did not, or could not, meet when hiring a coach (and did the same thing when it came time to replace Gary). Like I said earlier, I have my own doubts as to whether Edsall will ultimately get any better results than Fridge did. But I won't close the book on him just yet either.

In Fridgen's case, you need to justify firing the reigning COY, so the status quo isn't good enough.

 

Not sure, what you wanted with GW's replacement? He didn't fire him, is he supposed to say, "we just want someone who can get to the first weekend of the Tourney as has been our high mark the last decade?"

[Oriole85]

No question.  People were turning on him after 3 games.  It was ridiculous.

 

 

I don't believe anyone has said he handled it well, at least not from a PR standpoint.  I just don't think he came off as nearly the jerk that others did.  I do believe he should have left certain things unsaid, and that he has done a much better job of filtering himself after that first year.

Reason 192029 fans don't make decisions in regards to personnel moves, fans are way too reactive.

[BSLMikeLowe]

In Fridgen's case, you need to justify firing the reigning COY, so the status quo isn't good enough.

 

Not sure, what you wanted with GW's replacement? He didn't fire him, is he supposed to say, "we just want someone who can get to the first weekend of the Tourney as has been our high mark the last decade?"

 

It wasn't about his stated goal in replacing Gary, just how he managed the process (i.e. Sean Miller).

[Oriole85]

It wasn't about his stated goal in replacing Gary, just how he managed the process (i.e. Sean Miller).

He may not have gotten his first choice with Turgeon, but he could've done worse. I don't he necessarily hit a homerun here, but I don't think he did a bad job. I think he gets a B for the hire.

 

I think a lot of Maryland fans overrated how good of a job it was in comparison to others (like Arizona). Sean Miller is in a pretty good position at UofA. And at the time, Maryland was at best the #3 job in the ACC. Brad Stevens wasn't even interested in UCLA -- he couldn't turn down the Celtics eventually. Not sure how many people would pick the Terps over the Celtics?

[You Play to Win the Game]

He may not have gotten his first choice with Turgeon, but he could've done worse. I don't he necessarily hit a homerun here, but I don't think he did a bad job. I think he gets a B for the hire.

 

I think a lot of Maryland fans overrated how good of a job it was in comparison to others (like Arizona). Sean Miller is in a pretty good position at UofA. And at the time, Maryland was at best the #3 job in the ACC. Brad Stevens wasn't even interested in UCLA -- he couldn't turn down the Celtics eventually. Not sure how many people would pick the Terps over the Celtics?

 

That's selective memory at best though. Miller was highly interested in the job,and by all accounts, KA botched the interview. So KA definitely messed that up. Regardless, I'm well over it. I still like Turge, and think he'll be just fine.

[Oriole85]

That's selective memory at best though. Miller was highly interested in the job,and by all accounts, KA botched the interview. So KA definitely messed that up. Regardless, I'm well over it. I still like Turge, and think he'll be just fine.

He might've been highly interested in the job, but that doesn't mean he was going to leave a good situation at Arizona for Maryland. How many of these coaches get cold feet and have second thoughts in these situations? I'm just not sure how much of it was KA there. KA like Edsall is a good punching bag.

 

I did hear that KA's first choice was Anthony Grant and that his reasoning for not going was because of the recent tornadoes in Bama..

[Oriole85]

I looked back, the issue appears to be about lowering the academic admissions, which KA wouldn't do (http://espn.go.com/b...ve-for-maryland). That issue could be above his head as well. I still don't think it was necessarily a deciding issue and that he might've remained in Tucson regardless. I've only been to Tucson twice, it's a pretty nice place -- there's a lot to love there. It's not Maryland in terms of the facilities and immediate recruiting ground, but there's plenty of it in California. And they've had much more recent success than Maryland has had. Also, these coaches do like to use other jobs for leverage, which Sean Miller was apparently doing here (http://www.azcentral...-extension.html)

[BSLMikeLowe]

People loved Fridge because he was the big fat jolly alum who came along and immediately realized success (albeit with someone else's recruits). 

 

This will be my final post in this thread, but the bold part is a statement I have so often heard (especially from a certain owner of another message board), and the context of it just annoys the living crap out of me. It is always used as a means to denigrate what Ralph Friedgen accomplished in his first 3 years at UM. I have always believed and stated my support for Kevin Anderson to move on and let go of Fridge when he did (even if I wasn't exactly thrilled with the guy he replaced him with). As I have mentioned in this thread, for several reasons the time for a change had come. But to somehow turn Ralph's record those first 3 seasons against him is BS. The simple and undisputed fact of the matter is that with those same players, Ron Vanderlinden was never able to win more than 5 games. That is all.

[DJ MC]

This will be my final post in this thread, but the bold part is a statement I have so often heard (especially from a certain owner of another message board), and the context of it just annoys the living crap out of me. It is always used as a means to denigrate what Ralph Friedgen accomplished in his first 3 years at UM. I have always believed and stated my support for Kevin Anderson to move on and let go of Fridge when he did (even if I wasn't exactly thrilled with the guy he replaced him with). As I have mentioned in this thread, for several reasons the time for a change had come. But to somehow turn Ralph's record those first 3 seasons against him is BS. The simple and undisputed fact of the matter is that with those same players, Ron Vanderlinden was never able to win more than 5 games. That is all.

 

Especially in the context we now have where, with Friedgen's players who won nine games, Edsall won two.

[glenn__davis]

Especially in the context we now have where, with Friedgen's players who won nine games, Edsall won two.

 

Same guys.  Except for Torrey Smith, and Adrian Moten, and Da'Rel Scott, and Alex Wucjak, and Travis Baltz, and LaQuan Williams, and Antwine Perez, and Paul Pinegar.

 

But other than that, sure, same guys.