113 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

It would be much easier to argue that those guys could play well in this era than it is with Russell, IMO.  Centers are different.  That's why I've already said I believe a guy like Pete Maravich could succeed, same with Wilt.  If given time I could probably list several guys.

 

So Wilt could succeed but the guy that was arguably as good as him in the same era couldn't?

 

And with this little exercise of giving guys the benefits of being born later and with factoring in that players were measured without shoes then, we're looking at a 7'-7'1 250 or so pound super smart and competitive player with athleticism on par with a young Dwight Howard. Yeah, I think that type of player could do well now.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Look, you can have any opinion you like, but it's just not the same way people do these lists. And this approach is not something you can only say is common sense in basketball, if you want to do this in basketball, you have to do what Chris has done and apply it to all sports, because the level of play has greatly increased with time in all of them. So then you basically end up with best of all time lists completely dominated by modern guys. So at that point, how is it a best of all time list, and why not just skip the process and go by era?

 

Who the hell are YOU to say how I can put together MY list?  That's laughable.  I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that follow the NBA who feel the same way I do about Russell (in short, that he isn't as good as his era made him out to be) and thus demerits him.

 

Also, once again, I can look at basketball differently if I want to.  Each sport is different, and in basketball, in this era, if you're trying to play back to the basket center at Russell's size you'll get slaughtered, or at least not play as well as to be considered one of the best players of all time.

[mweb08]

And you're taking a wild guess by just assuming that Russell, born today, would be just as effective.  The best evidence we have are

 

1)  the offensive stats he put up IN HIS ERA, which were mediocre

 

2)  his size

 

Those things are both working against him here.

 

His size isn't that bad, especially if you're basically going to say what if he was born later. Now, if you just use a time machine and put him in today's game, you'd have a 6'11 228 guy with great athleticism and everything else that made him great. If you aren't giving him the advantages of the modern day, sure, he very likely wouldn't be nearly as good.

 

And yes, I am making wild guesses, which is part of why this is such a poor way to do this imo.

[Pedro Cerrano]

So Wilt could succeed but the guy that was arguably as good as him in the same era couldn't?

 

And with this little exercise of giving guys the benefits of being born later and with factoring in that players were measured without shoes then, we're looking at a 7'-7'1 250 or so pound super smart and competitive player with athleticism on par with a young Dwight Howard. Yeah, I think that type of player could do well now.

 

He averaged 15 PPG, how many would he average now?  12?  13?  How many less board would he get?  I'd say the decrease would be significant.

[mweb08]

Who the hell are YOU to say how I can put together MY list?  That's laughable.  I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that follow the NBA who feel the same way I do about Russell (in short, that he isn't as good as his era made him out to be) and thus demerits him.

 

Also, once again, I can look at basketball differently if I want to.  Each sport is different, and in basketball, in this era, if you're trying to play back to the basket center at Russell's size you'll get slaughtered, or at least not play as well as to be considered one of the best players of all time.

 

I'm not telling you how to do anything. And if you take Babe Ruth and put him in today's game, he's not likely to excel because the level of play is so much higher. Same with all the other old timers. I'm suggesting consistency. And KG doesn't get slaughtered and Russell has a similar body type.

[mweb08]

He averaged 15 PPG, how many would he average now?  12?  13?  How many less board would he get?  I'd say the decrease would be significant.

 

Are you giving him the advantages of the modern era or not?

[mweb08]

I think it really depends on how you want to look at this.

 

On one side, you have to look at how they did against their peers.  OTOH, when you are breaking it down to an all time list and you are saying, how do you compare player X to player Y, I do think looking at all factors makes sense.

 

I said in the recent podcast that I think Barry Sanders is the greatest RB ever...he was able to be great with as little help around as possible in a team sport and that says a lot to me.  Most people say Brown was the best and I respect that thought...But when Brown is bigger than Dlineman of his age, how great does that really make him?

 

if Jamal Lewis was a RB in that era instead of Brown, would we be saying Lewis is the greatest RB ever?

 

Its an interesting debate because there are so many ways to look at it.

 

It makes Brown really great because he was so much better than his peers.

[mweb08]

I guess if you guys were listing the greatest minds of all-time guys like Aristotle, Plato, Newton, Galieo, etc would have no chance because the brightest of the bright in the modern world are more advanced than in past times.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I guess if you guys were listing the greatest minds of all-time guys like Aristotle, Plato, Newton, Galieo, etc would have no chance because the brightest of the bright in the modern world are more advanced than in past times.

 

Oh just shut up.  God you're obnoxious.  Once again I will bow out of a once-spirited debate because you ruined it with snark.  Thanks.

[bnickle]

HAHAHAHA. GET CERRANO ON MBW ALREADY!!!!!

[SportsGuy]

It makes Brown really great because he was so much better than his peers.

Just give me a one word answer(I am getting at something, so go with me with the one word answer for now)....Do you think Jim Brown would be known as the greatest RB ever if he played in this era?  Yes or no.

[mweb08]

Oh just shut up.  God you're obnoxious.  Once again I will bow out of a once-spirited debate because you ruined it with snark.  Thanks.

 

That wasn't snark at all. Seems like a fair analogy to me. And you're being a jerk, as you were the other day because God forbid I left out an imo, but that's no surprise. Thanks.

[mweb08]

Just give me a one word answer(I am getting at something, so go with me with the one word answer for now)....Do you think Jim Brown would be known as the greatest RB ever if he played in this era?  Yes or no.

 

No idea. Don't care.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Positions have been made, we can agree to disagree. Further discussion isn't going to change positions.