77 replies to this topic

[PD24]

Here are mine, in no order.

 

Gregg Popovich

Doc Rivers

Tom Thibodeau

Eric Spoelstra

Rick Carlisle

 

The reason I don't have them listed in order is because I think it really depends on the type of team they're working with. For example, I think Doc Rivers is a perfect fit for a veteran team, and Thibodeau is a great fit for a young, hungry, scrappy team. Flip flop those coaches and I think both teams get worse.

 

Popovich may be best X's and O's guy in the game, and he has a vision throughout the season that really helps his teams come playoff time.

 

Spoelstra is the interesting one on here for me. He had 2 years (his first 2 years as head coach) with Wade, Haslem, and a bunch of filers, and got to the playoffs both years (and it wasn't like this year where a team 7 games under .500 made it). We know what he's doing now, which yeah, he has the best team...but you still need to give credit where credit is due. He has 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA playing together, as a team, and avoiding the letdowns. There hasn't been any locker room turmoil and he has the respect of the entire team. 

 

Carlisle is always very solid and is another top X's and O's guy. Got a Mavs team that wasn't close to the best team in the NBA that year to the finals. Really maxes out his teams IMO.

 

As for some that didn't make the list...

 

Mark Jackson is a guy who is hot on the trail, perhaps more-so as a motivator than an X's and O's guy. I guess Mike Woodson could be an argument. He's turned around 2 franchises who were not very good before he arrived (in different ways). I'm just not a huge fan of his style of play.

 

Not sure what to think about Scottie Brooks. Again, like Spo, he has his team playing hard every night and avoiding letdowns, and they've improved each year under him, but I'm not sold on his X's and O's ability.

 

I also think Mike Brown is highly underrated and will be a great fit for the Cavs going forward.

 

Thoughts? 

[SportsGuy]

Pop, Tibs, Rivers, spo, Karl

Agree that Jackson is quickly getting up there though.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Popovich
Thibs (won't even try to spell his name lol)
Rick Carlisle
Scott Brooks
George Karl

[mweb08]

I agree with your list Pete and would order them this way:

 

Pops

Thibs

Rivers

Spo

Carlisle

 

BTW, Thibs was great as the assistant with the C's so I think he can coach that type of team.

 

I agree that Jackson seems like a great motivator.

 

Woodson is good. Brooks is not imo. Too much Perkins and too little of an offensive system. Brown is solid. Karl and Adelman also come to mind as good coaches.

[Oriole85]

I'm interested to see Spolestra on so many people's lists. I don't completely discount the job he does with the Heat. I point back to Phil Jackson, they didn't win until he took over. But at the same time, i have a hard time seeing him in the top 5.

[Oriole85]

Here are mine, in no order.

 

Gregg Popovich

Doc Rivers

Tom Thibodeau

Eric Spoelstra

Rick Carlisle

 

The reason I don't have them listed in order is because I think it really depends on the type of team they're working with. For example, I think Doc Rivers is a perfect fit for a veteran team, and Thibodeau is a great fit for a young, hungry, scrappy team. Flip flop those coaches and I think both teams get worse.

 

Popovich may be best X's and O's guy in the game, and he has a vision throughout the season that really helps his teams come playoff time.

 

Spoelstra is the interesting one on here for me. He had 2 years (his first 2 years as head coach) with Wade, Haslem, and a bunch of filers, and got to the playoffs both years (and it wasn't like this year where a team 7 games under .500 made it). We know what he's doing now, which yeah, he has the best team...but you still need to give credit where credit is due. He has 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA playing together, as a team, and avoiding the letdowns. There hasn't been any locker room turmoil and he has the respect of the entire team. 

 

Carlisle is always very solid and is another top X's and O's guy. Got a Mavs team that wasn't close to the best team in the NBA that year to the finals. Really maxes out his teams IMO.

 

As for some that didn't make the list...

 

Mark Jackson is a guy who is hot on the trail, perhaps more-so as a motivator than an X's and O's guy. I guess Mike Woodson could be an argument. He's turned around 2 franchises who were not very good before he arrived (in different ways). I'm just not a huge fan of his style of play.

 

Not sure what to think about Scottie Brooks. Again, like Spo, he has his team playing hard every night and avoiding letdowns, and they've improved each year under him, but I'm not sold on his X's and O's ability.

 

I also think Mike Brown is highly underrated and will be a great fit for the Cavs going forward.

 

Thoughts? 

He's a preacher so it probably translates onto the basketball court. I'm really high on him, impressed with the job he's done. I think he'll be in the top 5 this time next year.

[Oriole85]

Popovich
Thibs (won't even try to spell his name lol)
Rick Carlisle
Scott Brooks
George Karl

If it's just the regular season sure with George Karl. Marty Schotteinheimer would also be on that list as well for the NFL.

[mweb08]

Regarding Spo, I think he's done a great job of managing ego's and he seems to be a good x's and o's guy too.

 

As for Karl just being a great regular season coach, well there may be some truth to that, but you also need to have the talent to win, and I don't think his teams have underachieved much, if at all in the postseason.

[PD24]

Madison -  I see what you're saying about Spo, but when you watch the Heat, you get the feeling that he's a good X's and O's guy. Combine that with being able to manage the egos and control the most talked about team in NBA history and I think he's gotta be up there. He's made key adjustments and he thinks outside the box, and gets the entire team of superstars to buy in.

 

Karl is a tough one. I'm not going to be ignorant and say, well, he can't win in the playoffs. In reality (and I'm not old enough to remember all of his teams from the 90s), he hasn't been the favorite that often. It's tough to win in the NBA playoffs when you A) aren't the favorite, and B) don't have a superstar. Other than Carmelo, who I don't really feel is a superstar, has he ever had a player that could be considered a top 15 player in the game? Show me a coach, other than HOF Larry Brown in Detroit, who hasn't won a championship in this ear with a top 15 player? 

 

I give him credit for seemingly maximizing the ability of his teams. That said, he doesn't have a championship so it's hard to put him above a guy like Carlisle. Adelman is in same situation. His Kings teams took the Lakers dynasty teams to the brink, and his Houston team took a Lakers championship team to game 7 of the WCF with Yao, McGrady, and Artest. If I'm an owner or GM, I have confidence that Adelman will get the most out of my team. But am I hiring him to coach my team with championship aspirations? Probably not, because he's never done it before, so again, tough to put him above a guy like Carlisle who would be in this category without his championship with Dallas. Although, he had a top player in the NBA in Dirk, which is something Karl or Adelman haven't had.

[PD24]

Popovich
Thibs (won't even try to spell his name lol)
Rick Carlisle
Scott Brooks
George Karl

 

Why Scott Brooks?

So if you're a GM, you hire Brooks and/or Karl before you hire Doc? Interested in your reasoning behind that.

[mweb08]

Pete: Karl coached the Payton/Kemp Sonics teams.

[SportsGuy]

Karl is a really good X's and O's guy...players really like him.

His teams win a lot of games.

He hasn't won a ton in the playoffs but he hasn't had that elite, take you a title player and you need those guys to win in the NBA(at least win titles).

[mweb08]

He had a shot with the Sonics, but I don't blame him for not winning.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I honestly don't know enough to judge in terms of their actual in-game coaching... but the most likable coaches to me are Karl, Pops and Thibs. Pops, in particular, is a lot more fun than I realized, he seems to have really loosened up over the years. I've always been a big Karl fan.

[PD24]

Pete: Karl coached the Payton/Kemp Sonics teams.

 

I know. They lost to Chicago in the middle of the Jordan dynasty. Certainly that can't be held against him, right?

 

Or are you saying that you think those guys were elite players at the time? 

[Pedro Cerrano]

Why Scott Brooks?

So if you're a GM, you hire Brooks and/or Karl before you hire Doc? Interested in your reasoning behind that.

All I will say is, Bostonians were ready to personally drive Doc Rivers to Logan Airport before they acquired KG and Ray Allen. I'm not sure how far back his archive goes, but Bill Simmons hated him prior to their '08 title.

I'd imagine most Celtics fans also think that group should have won more than one title.

[mweb08]

I know. They lost to Chicago in the middle of the Jordan dynasty. Certainly that can't be held against him, right?

 

Or are you saying that you think those guys were elite players at the time? 

 

The latter. 

[BSLMikeLowe]

I know. They lost to Chicago in the middle of the Jordan dynasty. Certainly that can't be held against him, right?

 

Or are you saying that you think those guys were elite players at the time? 

Karl also coached the 1993-94 Sonics (during Jordan's first "retirement"), who won a league-high 63 games.....then flamed out in the first round of the playoffs to the 42-40 Denver Nuggets after holding a 2-0 series lead. It was the first time a 1-seed ever lost to an 8-seed. Since then, with a few notable exceptions, his career has mostly been one-and-dones in the playoffs.

[Oriole85]

Madison -  I see what you're saying about Spo, but when you watch the Heat, you get the feeling that he's a good X's and O's guy. Combine that with being able to manage the egos and control the most talked about team in NBA history and I think he's gotta be up there. He's made key adjustments and he thinks outside the box, and gets the entire team of superstars to buy in.

 

Karl is a tough one. I'm not going to be ignorant and say, well, he can't win in the playoffs. In reality (and I'm not old enough to remember all of his teams from the 90s), he hasn't been the favorite that often. It's tough to win in the NBA playoffs when you A) aren't the favorite, and B) don't have a superstar. Other than Carmelo, who I don't really feel is a superstar, has he ever had a player that could be considered a top 15 player in the game? Show me a coach, other than HOF Larry Brown in Detroit, who hasn't won a championship in this ear with a top 15 player? 

 

I give him credit for seemingly maximizing the ability of his teams. That said, he doesn't have a championship so it's hard to put him above a guy like Carlisle. Adelman is in same situation. His Kings teams took the Lakers dynasty teams to the brink, and his Houston team took a Lakers championship team to game 7 of the WCF with Yao, McGrady, and Artest. If I'm an owner or GM, I have confidence that Adelman will get the most out of my team. But am I hiring him to coach my team with championship aspirations? Probably not, because he's never done it before, so again, tough to put him above a guy like Carlisle who would be in this category without his championship with Dallas. Although, he had a top player in the NBA in Dirk, which is something Karl or Adelman haven't had.

So no love for Chauncey? Sorry I just had to go there...

 

I think with these things you look at the whole body of work, but more emphasis is placed towards recent play. Anotherwards, what he did with Seattle, a decade-and-a-half ago isn't so relevant in determining his current standing.

 

A lot of "ifs" with your arguments, can't we focus more on what happened? We can go through the "ifs" forever in sports and life.

 

He's a top 5 regular season coach, you could make the argument but not a top 5 overall coach based on his postseason play. He's made it out of the first round ONCE in nearly a decade in Denver. So much for your championship argument, try getting out of the first round more than once over this time period. If you are the GM or owner, are you OK with this? Would you keep him? Knowing a lot of Nuggets fans, they are through with him at this point. You're the one who points the Billy Beane quote about building for something special or already having it, does Karl fit either criteria? And it's not like he just got to Denver and needs more time.

[Oriole85]

Karl also coached the 1993-94 Sonics (during Jordan's first "retirement"), who won a league-high 63 games.....then flamed out in the first round of the playoffs to the 42-40 Denver Nuggets after holding a 2-0 series lead. It was the first time a 1-seed ever lost to an 8-seed. Since then, with a few notable exceptions, his career has mostly been one-and-dones in the playoffs.

Exactly why in 2013, you can't call him a top 5 coach.

 

One thing I forgot in my rebuttal to Peter, the Nuggets were clearly favored this year over the Warriors this year.