26 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

Would you be upset with Bundy's first 4 years if he averaged 173IP, 12 wins, .98 HR rate, 2.3 K:BB and a 4.50 ERA?

[You Play to Win the Game]

Definitely not in terms of the IP/W's... A little bit in terms of the K:BB/ERA.

Overall, no... but I'd have hoped he would have been better.

[DJ MC]

I think that would be good enough to trade for a pretty good shortstop.

[Mackus]

Absolutely. That'd be incredibly disappointing, and couldn't even be justified as still being very good or his peers like we can say about Wieters.

[bmoreraventerp]

I would be very disappointed. I guess if he was trending very well in season 3 and 4 where he avg. a sub 3.5 era and good peripherals than I would be less disappointed, but still disappointed because it would mean he was bad in his first two seasons.

Your numbers are what I hope is his floor as an avg of his first 2 seasons.

[JeremyStrain]

Would you be upset with Bundy's first 4 years if he averaged 173IP, 12 wins, .98 HR rate, 2.3 K:BB and a 4.50 ERA?

I know you are baiting

But yeah I'd be disappointed in that.

[Can_of_corn]

Would you be upset with Bundy's first 4 years if he averaged 173IP, 12 wins, .98 HR rate, 2.3 K:BB and a 4.50 ERA?

The ERA is definitely high for the current offensive era.

I find it odd you are using the stats you used.

Who's career numbers did you grab for the comparison?

[DJ MC]

The ERA is definitely high for the current offensive era.

I find it odd you are using the stats you used.

Who's career numbers did you grab for the comparison?

A very popular name as of late, who started his career at the same age that Bundy is going to see his first significant ML playing time.

[bmoreb]

It would be disappointing, but not as disappointing as when we trade him away and he wins 20 and a CyYoung

[Tucker Blair]

Why would I be happy with Bundy becoming Rick Porcello 2.0?

But yea, pretty much everyone would be disappointed with that

[SportsGuy]

I would also be upset...much like I am with Wieters but many make excuses for him. So, I just wonder if the same would happen here?

[Tucker Blair]

I would also be upset...much like I am with Wieters but many make excuses for him. So, I just wonder if the same would happen here?

Wieters is still one of the best catchers in baseball (Easily top 10, arguably top 5), I'm not quite sure it is the same thing.
Porcello is not even a top 50 pitcher, although he still is a decent option.

[DJ MC]

I would also be upset...much like I am with Wieters but many make excuses for him. So, I just wonder if the same would happen here?

Well, there's a minuscule, tiny, almost imperceptible difference in the two situations.

[DJ MC]

Wieters is still one of the best catchers in baseball (Easily top 10, arguably top 5), I'm not quite sure it is the same thing.
Porcello is not even a top 50 pitcher, although he still is a decent option.

Correct. Porcello is just another guy with the potential to become something more. Wieters is the best catcher in the AL (with Mauer having an argument but also another position) with the potential to become something more.

[JeffLong]

I would also be upset...much like I am with Wieters but many make excuses for him. So, I just wonder if the same would happen here?

There's a difference there IMO.

Wieters was expected to be great with the bat and average-ish on defense depending on who you talk to.

Instead he's great on defense and above-average with the bat. I'm ok with that. No, he's not hitting .330, but part of that is the new offensive environment, and part of it is that's an unrealistic expectation of a catcher IMO.

If Bundy ends up merely being decent... there'd be disappointment because it's not like he can make up for that by also playing above average defense at Pitcher.

The above thoughts are only like 75% complete but you get the point.

[JeremyStrain]

There's a difference there IMO.

Wieters was expected to be great with the bat and average-ish on defense depending on who you talk to.

Instead he's great on defense and above-average with the bat. I'm ok with that. No, he's not hitting .330, but part of that is the new offensive environment, and part of it is that's an unrealistic expectation of a catcher IMO.

If Bundy ends up merely being decent... there'd be disappointment because it's not like he can make up for that by also playing above average defense at Pitcher.

The above thoughts are only like 75% complete but you get the point.

I mean I don't get it. I don't know what people were expecting out of Wieters. Honestly, he's not far off from where I thought he would be. His avg. is a little light, I thought he'd get more to that .280-.300 range, and I thought he'd have 5-10 more doubles and 5-10 more HR, but he's really not far off, and the upgrade he made in defense makes up for that easily.

He's one of the top 5 offensively and defensively at his position, and he's somehow a disappointment? I mean did you want him to cure cancer while hitting .450 and 75 HR per year?

[SportsGuy]

I mean I don't get it. I don't know what people were expecting out of Wieters. Honestly, he's not far off from where I thought he would be. His avg. is a little light, I thought he'd get more to that .280-.300 range, and I thought he'd have 5-10 more doubles and 5-10 more HR, but he's really not far off, and the upgrade he made in defense makes up for that easily.

He's one of the top 5 offensively and defensively at his position, and he's somehow a disappointment? I mean did you want him to cure cancer while hitting .450 and 75 HR per year?

You are probably talking about a 40-50 point difference in OPS though..at least.

As for Wieters still being very good. Agreed.

My point was that people expected much more and he didn't come through. That's more of what I am talking about.

And btw, there is a big age difference between him and Porcello as well.

I think Orioles fans would use many excuses if this was Bundy and wouldn't be ready to right him off as "this is what he is" like some are doing with Porcello.

[Can_of_corn]

You are probably talking about a 40-50 point difference in OPS though..at least.

As for Wieters still being very good. Agreed.

My point was that people expected much more and he didn't come through. That's more of what I am talking about.

And btw, there is a big age difference between him and Porcello as well.

I think Orioles fans would use many excuses if this was Bundy and wouldn't be ready to right him off as "this is what he is" like some are doing with Porcello.

Age is pretty close to irrelevant in this case since neither player should be reaching a point of decline before leaving team control. If you think Porcello still has time to hit his peak I will counter by saying that Catchers tend to reach their offensive peak at a later age then other position players.

[RichardZ]

It would be disappointing but not terribly surprising.

[Mackus]

I mean I don't get it. I don't know what people were expecting out of Wieters. Honestly, he's not far off from where I thought he would be. His avg. is a little light, I thought he'd get more to that .280-.300 range, and I thought he'd have 5-10 more doubles and 5-10 more HR, but he's really not far off, and the upgrade he made in defense makes up for that easily.

He's one of the top 5 offensively and defensively at his position, and he's somehow a disappointment? I mean did you want him to cure cancer while hitting .450 and 75 HR per year?

He's not even that close to top 5 offensively at catcher. 9th out of the only 9 qualified catchers in the league last year in OPS. 7th of 10 in 2011. If you look at a minimum of 400 PAs instead, then he's been 12th of 17 in 2012, 10th of 20 in 2011, and 11th of 17 in 2010. Saying he's in the top 5 among catchers offensively is just wrong. He's probably never even made the top 10.

That's the disappointment. He was supposed to be a bat to be feared, not just a solid hitting catcher, but one of the better hitters in the league.

He is in the top 5 defensively, or sure, but I don't think a middle of the pack hitting, gold-glove caliber catcher is what we were expecting from Wieters. I'd happily trade his gold glove defense for average defense if he could also trade his average offense for top 2-3 among catchers (875-900 OPS).