32 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

Out of curiosity - how many CF are there who Jones would move to LF for happily?

Trout, Kemp, ????

I could go either way on Ellsbury, but with his injury history I'd lean towards leaving Jones in CF.

There isnt one.

[JeffLong]

If the Orioles wouldn't play Bourn in center and move Jones to left, there is no reason to even consider the move. Bourn gets so much of his value from his defense that it would be a huge waste to play him in left. Players get upset sometimes when you ask them to change positions, but management needs to do what's best for the team. You can deal with Jones' hurt feelings later.

If Bourn was brought in to play CF, I'd be fine with giving him the Swisher contract 4/$56m. The loss of the draft pick hurts, which is why I think you need to add a fourth year to the deal. Even if he may sign it, I don't think it's worth signing him to a "pillow contract" 1 year deal and giving up the pick.

However, the Orioles have given no indication that they have this kind of money available to spend.

Technically though, you could sign Bourn to a 1-year deal if you think he'll recoup some value. Give up the draft pick and then offer him a qualifying offer next year. You could potentially get a better draft pick back and the only downside would be losing a pick in a down year.

Obviously a huge gamble... if he tanks then you're not getting a pick back (because he'd accept a qualifying offer or you don't offer him one).

[JeffLong]

There isnt one.

I think that's BS. If you told Adam Jones that he could play next to Kemp or Trout, but he'd have to move to LF that he'd do it in a heartbeat.

[SportsGuy]

I think that's BS. If you told Adam Jones that he could play next to Kemp or Trout, but he'd have to move to LF that he'd do it in a heartbeat.

Why?

He would say, I am a 2 time GGer(and just beat out Trout btw) and have been here for years...why should I make room for them? They can play LF just as easily as I can.

He didnt want to listen to Paul Blair(or anyone else) when he told him he was playing too shallow. He believes he is a great defensive CFer and that his way is the correct way.

So why should we think he would move for anyone? Because UZR says he should?

[BSLChrisStoner]

I think that's BS. If you told Adam Jones that he could play next to Kemp or Trout, but he'd have to move to LF that he'd do it in a heartbeat.

I think you named the guys he possibly would move willingly for.

[DJ MC]

He didnt want to listen to Paul Blair(or anyone else) when he told him he was playing too shallow. He believes his a great defensive CFer and that his way is the correct way.

This is the key. If he's so far up his own...that he won't listen to Paul Blair on improving his play in center field, I don't think he would be "happy" to move for Willie Mays.

[Kevin Ebert]

Technically though, you could sign Bourn to a 1-year deal if you think he'll recoup some value. Give up the draft pick and then offer him a qualifying offer next year. You could potentially get a better draft pick back and the only downside would be losing a pick in a down year.

Obviously a huge gamble... if he tanks then you're not getting a pick back (because he'd accept a qualifying offer or you don't offer him one).

There's some merit to that argument if you feel confident that the O's would make a qualifying offer, which may be around $15 million next year. If they made the offer and he turned it down, they would get a sandwich pick back so a pick somewhere between 27-40 next year. I'm not 100% sure they'd make the offer because of Angelos. The pick they'd give up would be 24 this year, which is more valuable than somewhere between 27-40 next year. It's not way more valuable, but there's still some value there.

As to all the would Jones be willing talk, if the Orioles let it leak to the media that they asked Jones to move to LF but he turned them down - he'd get killed in the press. No matter what the metrics say, everyone should realize that Bourn is a better defensive CF than Jones. If management asked him to move to LF, he'd have to move to LF. I'm sorry but it's not up to him. Players get asked to change positions all the time. It's part of the game, and they did just agree to pay him $85m. So he can't argue to stay in CF and say that CF's get paid better. He already got paid as a CF.

[SportsGuy]

There's some merit to that argument if you feel confident that the O's would make a qualifying offer, which may be around $15 million next year. If they made the offer and he turned it down, they would get a sandwich pick back so a pick somewhere between 27-40 next year. I'm not 100% sure they'd make the offer because of Angelos. The pick they'd give up would be 24 this year, which is more valuable than somewhere between 27-40 next year. It's not way more valuable, but there's still some value there.

As to all the would Jones be willing talk, if the Orioles let it leak to the media that they asked Jones to move to LF but he turned them down - he'd get killed in the press. No matter what the metrics say, everyone should realize that Bourn is a better defensive CF than Jones. If management asked him to move to LF, he'd have to move to LF. I'm sorry but it's not up to him. Players get asked to change positions all the time. It's part of the game, and they did just agree to pay him $85m. So he can't argue to stay in CF and say that CF's get paid better. He already got paid as a CF.

Agreed, but.....

1) Would this management have the balls to even ask?

2) Would he move over but sulk and let it effect his performance?

I think many fans would say the same things I said earlier...that Jones has been here for a while, has 2 GGs, etc...They would be on his side, not the Os, especially since the O's(despite last year) don't exactly have the best rep in town for making the best decisions.

[JeffLong]

There's some merit to that argument if you feel confident that the O's would make a qualifying offer, which may be around $15 million next year. If they made the offer and he turned it down, they would get a sandwich pick back so a pick somewhere between 27-40 next year. I'm not 100% sure they'd make the offer because of Angelos. The pick they'd give up would be 24 this year, which is more valuable than somewhere between 27-40 next year. It's not way more valuable, but there's still some value there.

As to all the would Jones be willing talk, if the Orioles let it leak to the media that they asked Jones to move to LF but he turned them down - he'd get killed in the press. No matter what the metrics say, everyone should realize that Bourn is a better defensive CF than Jones. If management asked him to move to LF, he'd have to move to LF. I'm sorry but it's not up to him. Players get asked to change positions all the time. It's part of the game, and they did just agree to pay him $85m. So he can't argue to stay in CF and say that CF's get paid better. He already got paid as a CF.

Yeah, my point was you'd have to take into consideration the level of talent in each of the drafts. For example, we have 24 and again at 40 (i think?) in the 2013 draft. They would give up 24, but in return could have 2 (or 3) picks in the top 40 picks next year where the level of talent could be higher.

[JeremyStrain]

Yeah, my point was you'd have to take into consideration the level of talent in each of the drafts. For example, we have 24 and again at 40 (i think?) in the 2013 draft. They would give up 24, but in return could have 2 (or 3) picks in the top 40 picks next year where the level of talent could be higher.

I think this is giving me inspiration for a new Depot post. Between this and Jon's post the other day about overvaluing picks, it's got the wheels turning. Don't know when I'll have a chance to get it done, but it should tie into this conversation.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I like Bourn a lot. I thought he made sense. At this point, I don't really see the need. If you could get him for a year, I might go ahead and do that though.

Is it worth giving up a draft pick on a 1-year deal? Or are you banking that you can get that pick back next offseason? I'd pass.

[JeremyStrain]

Or how about consider the draft pool amou t having a first rounder as well as that comp pick and a 2nd rounder. May give them some plans for the draft that they dont want to give up. Hard to say this soon into this new method.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Is it worth giving up a draft pick on a 1-year deal? Or are you banking that you can get that pick back next offseason? I'd pass.

I was thinking they could get a similar talent (sandwich pick, vs. 24th). That is a bit of a gamble though.
I'd be shocked at this point to see the O's involved with Bourn.