26 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

BSL: Ravens Rally To Again Beat The Bengals

https://baltimorespo...-in-pittsburgh/

[cprenegade]

Can't help feeling that Cincinnati gave away both of the games they played the Ravens.  First game the botched FG cost them the game.  Tonight a fumble and two questionable calls on 3rd and 4th down cost them.  Cincinnati has to feel their season was lost on these two games.  I mean Burrow torched the Raven's secondary both times and lost both times.  But the score is what it is.  Honestly hope the Bengals don't sneak in as the last wild card and end up playing the Ravens.  Both teams can play each other straight up.  Anything can happen.  

[Mackus]

Honestly hope the Bengals don't sneak in as the last wild card and end up playing the Ravens.

This is an inevitability.

[BaltBird 24]

I've lost all hope that the defense can improve enough to be even an average unit.

Hopefully Lamar, Henry, and the rest of the offense can score enough and keep the defense off the field long enough that it won't sink our season.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its stunning how far the D has fallen in 1 year. Without losing some huge piece either. Last year was one of the best years on that side of the ball in franchise history

[Mackus]

Its stunning how far the D has fallen in 1 year. Without losing some huge piece either. Last year was one of the best years on that side of the ball in franchise history

Agree. This is also what allows me to hold onto some hope. If it's coaching, it should be able to be fixed. Doesn't need to be amazing, just ok and we're probably the best team in the league.

[DuffMan]

Was the corner we traded for on the field last night?

[Biggsy]

Agree. This is also what allows me to hold onto some hope. If it's coaching, it should be able to be fixed. Doesn't need to be amazing, just ok and we're probably the best team in the league.

I refuse to believe Clowney, Stone and Queen are the difference between being the best defense to one of the worst.

The only other change was the DC. And you can see it every week. RB's just run untouched through thr LOS, turn around, and give the QB an easy 5-7 yards, every single player. If it's not the RB, it's the TE releasing, wide open to the sidelines for an easy 5+. It's over and over. And even worse, it's not like that's all that is there, the back end has massive holes in it that get exploited for big plays over and over.

Humphrey and other players can talk about accountability, and they can fall on the sword for Orr, because they love the guy. The truth is on film every single week. The DC isn't putting guys in the right places to succeed. He is giving up easy yards on first and second down, and cant get off the field on 3rd and shorts.


Any inaction by the FO on this front is ineptitude. I get that you're in a tough spot. I get that anyone off the streets isn't guaranteed to make anything better. But not trying something isn't an option. You have the best offense in Ravens history. You have a QB having an all time great season. A RB that's having an all time great season. And an offense that's just obliterating every defense they come up against. This defense in its current state is going to end your season early. We have an inexperienced DC that has no clue what to do to fix it. Something has to be done. Period.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Rex Ryan is just sitting there, talking each week on National TV about how he wants to be back coaching. 

You've got the organizational familiarity. 
He wouldn't be passive. At the absolute minimum, he'd be attacking.
And also, there isn't anything an opposing offense could throw at him, that he wouldn't have seen. 

 

If you are going to make a change, go make a change.

[Mackus]

I refuse to believe Clowney, Stone and Queen are the difference between being the best defense to one of the worst.

 

I certainly believe that Orr has some problems and have said as much, but I also think it doesn't explain all the dropoff.  Players are playing worse.  Ultimately you could argue that's on the coaches, too, but the players do have responsibility.  Look at Roquon, he went from All-Pro to someone who probably isn't any better than most reserves.  I don't think Zach Orr did that.  Maybe Orr puts him in the wrong spot sometimes, but he didn't let Bo Nix run past him like he was magnetically repulsed away from contacting him.  I think something happened with Roquon and he's not currently the same guy as he has been.  Hoping its recoverable this year, but if its something off-field that he's bringing in with him, that might take time.

 

I'm not against a DC change, but I think the fix is more likely to come internally, and I don't even really mean in changing personnel or job responsibilities.  Internal growth.  I do really wish we'd made external additions at pass rush and free safety.  Those players I'm not as confident in getting things done on their own.  Nice to see a good game from the pass rush last night.  Build on that.

[Slidemaster]

Rex Ryan is just sitting there, talking each week on National TV about how he wants to be back coaching.
You've got the organizational familiarity.
He wouldn't be passive. At the absolute minimum, he'd be attacking.
And also, there isn't anything an opposing offense could throw at him, that he wouldn't have seen.

If you are going to make a change, go make a change.

They will not, at least not this season.

[DuffMan]

Did any of the reporters ask John why he needed to throw away a challenge/to so quick into a game?

[jamesdean]

Rex Ryan is just sitting there, talking each week on National TV about how he wants to be back coaching. 

You've got the organizational familiarity. 
He wouldn't be passive. At the absolute minimum, he'd be attacking.
And also, there isn't anything an opposing offense could throw at him, that he wouldn't have seen. 

 

If you are going to make a change, go make a change.

I can't see Ryan and Harbaugh co-existing together. 

[Mackus]

I can't see Ryan and Harbaugh co-existing together.

They did for a year, or at least seemed to. That was kind of a strange scenario since Rex had interviewed for the job that John got, but defense did well enough for Rex to get a head coaching job after the season.

I wouldn't go back to Rex. I think it's somewhat telling that he hasn't had a job in a while and just personally dislike him strongly for non-football reasons.

[jamesdean]

They did for a year, or at least seemed to. That was kind of a strange scenario since Rex had interviewed for the job that John got, but defense did well enough for Rex to get a head coaching job after the season.

I wouldn't go back to Rex. I think it's somewhat telling that he hasn't had a job in a while and just personally dislike him strongly for non-football reasons.

Exactly.  He's just too much of an egomaniac.  

[BSLChrisStoner]

They did for a year, or at least seemed to. That was kind of a strange scenario since Rex had interviewed for the job that John got, but defense did well enough for Rex to get a head coaching job after the season.

I wouldn't go back to Rex. I think it's somewhat telling that he hasn't had a job in a while and just personally dislike him strongly for non-football reasons.

 

 

Exactly.  He's just too much of an egomaniac.  

 

 

It is telling, and he certainly has an ego. 
He's also had a good gig on TV, getting paid a lot, with a lot less pressure... so maybe he grew comfortable doing that and wasn't going to leave for anything?  I know he interviewed with Dallas last offseason, but I don't know if he was looking for jobs the entire time he's been out of coaching or not. 

 

He does have a track record of success.  

 

The deadline has passed, you can't change the players. 

 

The FO didn't go and add anyone outside of White to the defense, so clearly DeCosta believes the players on the roster are good enough.

If you believe the players are good enough, than it's the coaching. 

 

If the point is Orr is in over his head... to the point that you as an organization think a change is necessary to give you the best chance at a Super Bowl.... then you might as well go get the best guy available. 

Belichick isn't available, because he will be a HC somewhere next year.

Ryan is available for a DC, because he has been out of the coaching game for a long time now.

 

Maybe he's not a long-term answer. 

Maybe it's only for the rest of the season and you reset. 

 

But if you want experience, swagger, and organizational familiarity... he's the guy imo.

 

 

And btw I say this as someone who didn't always love him as a DC. 
There were times I got annoyed that he'd be aggressive for 55 minutes, and then pull back in a shell. 

 

Just seems to me we can't continue to talk about Orr each week. 

Admittedly, if the Ravens were inclined to make a change (and they probably aren't), giving the full reigns to Pees is probably the call. 

 

 

If the Ravens do want to make a change, and it isn't going to be Pees, and they can't stomach Ryan...  Chuck Pagano is available, and he's been a coach more recently. 
 

[Mackus]

Not necessarily saying that "its never happened before so it must be a bad idea", but can anyone point to an example in recent memory where a contending team fired an OC or DC in the middle of the season and brought in an external replacement?  We see changes made at coordinator and someone internally take over.  Ravens have done that multiple times, including very famously in 2012.  But I can't recall any team having an external hire come in to take over as coordinator mid-year.

 

I'm not sure its a practical idea.

 

Think Pees taking over since he's been in the building for a few weeks now is the closest thing to an external replacement that is plausible for the Ravens.

[Biggsy]

Not necessarily saying that "its never happened before so it must be a bad idea", but can anyone point to an example in recent memory where a contending team fired an OC or DC in the middle of the season and brought in an external replacement? We see changes made at coordinator and someone internally take over. Ravens have done that multiple times, including very famously in 2012. But I can't recall any team having an external hire come in to take over as coordinator mid-year.

I'm not sure its a practical idea.

Think Pees taking over since he's been in the building for a few weeks now is the closest thing to an external replacement that is plausible for the Ravens.

If a change is made, it's more than likely a move to Pees. Unfortunately. And I honestly don't think that changes much.

[makoman]

Not necessarily saying that "its never happened before so it must be a bad idea", but can anyone point to an example in recent memory where a contending team fired an OC or DC in the middle of the season and brought in an external replacement?  We see changes made at coordinator and someone internally take over.  Ravens have done that multiple times, including very famously in 2012.  But I can't recall any team having an external hire come in to take over as coordinator mid-year.

 

I'm not sure its a practical idea.

 

Think Pees taking over since he's been in the building for a few weeks now is the closest thing to an external replacement that is plausible for the Ravens.

I've said the same, it's just not something that I recall ever happening. If you go away from Orr it's either to Pees or Chris Hewitt, who has also never been a coordinator. So probably it's Pees, and like Biggsy said does that really do a whole lot? Like if Orr has obvious scheme flaws Pees is already there to point that out.

[BaltBird 24]

Also, say the Ravens like Orr's potential as a DC, but he's just not seasoned enough yet.... has a team ever demoted and kept a coordinator as a position coach or analyst just to promote them back to a coordinator again?

Seems like an odd thing to do.