96 replies to this topic

[makoman]

Yup and Ive argued that giving AAAA guys or fringe guys opportunity allows for the chance one or two pops. If Christian Walker for example comes along a few years later he may very well have established himself here in Baltimore.


Mullins is another guy who couldve easily been lost in the shuffle had they still been trying to contend or went out and brought in a a vet CF after Jones left

If they were trying to compete those years then maybe even Santander and Mullins don't get additional chances after their early struggles. Means probably doesn't get a starting job in April 2019.

 

I don't want to glorify the tank job, but it did create opportunity.

[Mackus]

It's also been discussed a thousand times, but I don't see much difference in completely tanking like Elias did from 19-21 and what the Orioles did for much of the early 2000s signing guys like Marty Cordova, Deivi Cruz, Kevin Millar, Jay Payton, Cesar Izturis, Aubrey Huff, Ty Wigginton, Derrek Lee, Vladimir Guerrero, Miguel Tejada (2nd tour), Julio Lugo.

Sure, they were all fringe MLB starters, but they were still 90+ loss teams even if they were slightly better than slop like Dwight Smith Jr, Rio Ruiz, Richie Martin, Kelvin Gutierrez, Stevie Wilkerson, etc.

I don't believe anyone who says they can't feel the difference on a nightly basis between a 85- or 90-loss team and a 110-loss team. In retrospect maybe they blur together, but the day-to-day experience is palpably different. Unless you tap out and don't pay any attention in either case.

[BaltBird 24]

I definitely tapped out between 2019-2021. I can't recall watching many games at all between 2020-2021 (just very weird years in general).

I did pay marginally more attention to the mediocre to bad teams of the early 2000s, but realistically how much more interested can you be when you're 25-30 games back opposed to 48-49 games back?

I got to a point in both eras where I'd root for losses just to improve draft status.

[BaltBird 24]

If they're historically bad in 2000 maybe they end up with Mark Prior or Mark Teixeira or Joe Mauer rather than Chris Smith.

In 2004 maybe they get Justin Verlander rather than Wade Townsend.

2009 maybe they luck into Strasburg instead of Hobgood.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I don't believe anyone who says they can't feel the difference on a nightly basis between a 85- or 90-loss team and a 110-loss team. In retrospect maybe they blur together, but the day-to-day experience is palpably different. Unless you tap out and don't pay any attention in either case.

This is where I empathize.I do understand that there are people who want to sit down and watch their team every night or almost every night. I did check out on followiing the big league club on a nightly basis. I'd go days at a time without watching and generally wasn't invested. I found my fix following the minors closely. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

If they're historically bad in 2000 maybe they end up with Mark Prior or Mark Teixeira or Joe Mauer rather than Chris Smith.

In 2004 maybe they get Justin Verlander rather than Wade Townsend.

2009 maybe they luck into Strasburg instead of Hobgood.

I remember being so pissed that they swept the Yankees to end the 2000 season. I knew that may cost us a chance to draft Teixeira. Now, we still may have passed on him but I remember rooting for us to  drop below Texas.

[BaltBird 24]

I remember being so pissed that they swept the Yankees to end the 2000 season. I knew that may cost us a chance to draft Teixeira. Now, we still may have passed on him but I remember rooting for us to drop below Texas.

Thought it was almost a sure thing they'd draft Teixeira had he fallen to us. Believe a lot of mocks had us taking Teixeira, though maybe some had us taking the other hometown kid Gavin Floyd.

Chris Smith seemed like a desperation panic pick, but there was a steep drop in career production after those top 5 picks.

[BSLRoseKatz]

I don't believe anyone who says they can't feel the difference on a nightly basis between a 85- or 90-loss team and a 110-loss team. In retrospect maybe they blur together, but the day-to-day experience is palpably different. Unless you tap out and don't pay any attention in either case.

 

Yeah it absolutely feels different watching a pedestrian bad team compared to a team that where a 14-game losing streak wasn't even the longest losing streak they had that season

[jamesdean]

A loser is a loser, regardless of whether you end up with 90 losses or 115.  What difference does it make?  If you have no chance to make the post season and a shot at the World Series, everything is basically sustained annoyance or laughable futility.  Keep the farm system thriving, spend money wisely on key additions, and tie up as many irreplaceable players long term as you can. 

[russsnyder]

A loser is a loser, regardless of whether you end up with 90 losses or 115. What difference does it make? If you have no chance to make the post season and a shot at the World Series, everything is basically sustained annoyance or laughable futility. Keep the farm system thriving, spend money wisely on key additions, and tie up as many irreplaceable players long term as you can.

Yep.

If you aren't playing meaningful games in August and September the season is pretty forgetful anyway. I also don't understand the hand wringing over the tanking. Why pine over past potential 75 win seasons? The ends have justified the means in this case.

[BaltBird 24]

Guess some would rather lose 90-95 games with old has beens than lose 110 games with fringe never will be guys.

20 more wins is pretty meaningless when the end result is the same.

[jamesdean]

Yep.

If you aren't playing meaningful games in August and September the season is pretty forgetful anyway. I also don't understand the hand wringing over the tanking. Why pine over potential 75 win seasons? The ends have justified the means in this case.

I don't get it either.  The Orioles wouldn't be where they are today if they hadn't gone through the terrible years.  I don't care for the word "tanking" because the players that were on those teams wanted to win as much as the next guy.  And while Hyde painfully accepted the process, he wasn't trying to lose games either.  It was what it was.   

[85Knight]

I don't get it either. I don't always agree with Elias because I think he moves too slow and sticks to the longterm plan a little too much for me but a rebuild is what is. You completely tear it down and build it from the bottom up. There wasn't a lot of focus on the major league team for a couple of years but I don't think they lost intentionally. There's a difference.

[Mackus]

The advantages of getting #1 aren't worth the soul-crushing that you have to go through to get it.

A 90-loss team has more enjoyable moments, and staves off apathy a lot longer, than a 110-loss team.

[jamesdean]

The advantages of getting #1 aren't worth the soul-crushing that you have to go through to get it.

A 90-loss team has more enjoyable moments, and staves off apathy a lot longer, than a 110-loss team.

That's pretty harsh if that's what you were feeling.  I've never taken sports that seriously, especially baseball.  I will admit the Ravens play-off loss to the Colts was pretty damn close to that, though. 

[BaltBird 24]

There was just as much apathy from 2001-2004 and 2006-2011 despite slightly better teams than from 2019-2021. Yeah, those 2019-2021 teams we the absolute bottom, but wasn't much worse than really 2007-2010. And those teams did nothing behind the scenes like Elias was doing.

[mweb08]

90 loss seasons also aren't guaranteed when you're actually trying to win.

Granted, some seasons are closer to a guarantee than others.