38 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

We should all be disappointed that MD realistically doesn’t even have a chance tonight. This is Maryland basketball. What are we doing here?

[BSLChrisStoner]

We should all be disappointed that MD realistically doesn’t even have a chance tonight. This is Maryland basketball. What are we doing here?

 

Willing to have the discussion.... but it's such a big question, that we (Maryland fans) seem to be having after every game.
I get that to a degree...  sometimes that overview perspective needs to happen.  "Where are we? What are we trying to be? What's the path between where we are, and where we want to be?" 

My cliff notes: 

 

- Since the program won the title in '01-'02, they've had two Sweet 16s. 

 

- Gary is my favorite person in sports, but he has responsibility for not capitalizing more immediately after the title... The ACCT run was sweet.... and the 2009-10 team had a real chance to do damage, but lost to MSU on that buzzer beater... ugh, still hurts.

 

- Turgeon took over in '11-'12.  He had a decade. He's there until early '21-'22.  He put the program back on solid footing, but with MD not doing more with the '15-'16 team, and with the '19-'20 team not getting the tournament opportunity... they never did enough in the post-season to get more people to buy in.

 

- MD moved to the Big Ten in '14-'15.   Since joining the Big Ten, I'm pretty sure MD has the 3rd most conference wins in that time. That means they've been consistently pretty good since joining the conference. Annually one of the best regular season conferences.... even if the conference seems to collectively underachieve / choke in March. 

 

- But being 3rd or so in conference wins without the post-season success wasn't enough for the fanbase by '21-'22, and Turgeon walks, and the fans were collectively happy about the change. Me included.  I never liked Turgeon's style of play, but I did respect that he had MD typically in the conference fight.  Did think it was possible he could have post-season success.   But I was ready to move on too. 

 

- Turgeon leaves mid-season...that team goes 7-13 in conference play.  Willard is hired April 2022.  Willard wasn't my first choice, but he was certainly a reasonable choice.  He did have his supporters. He generally won me over last year.  His first team goes 22-13, 11-9 in Conference play... he wins a game in the NCAAT.   Not a great year, but a fine first year. 

 

- MD seemingly takes a step back to begin this year... but has started to rebound a bit the last few weeks. Including tonight, there are 18 conference games left (not including the Big Ten Tournament).  MD probably has to win 11 or 12 of them to get back to the tournament. 

 

 

Bigger picture wise... 

 

- When MD is good, the fanbase still cares. Crowd was plenty enthusiastic in '19-'20.  Hell, even moments last year.
 

- When MD isn't good, the fanbase is apathetic. It's a pro market. There are other things to do.  If you aren't good enough consistently, apathy could set in, and that's a real concern. 

 

- There is always a ton of talent within 2 hours of College Park.  The NIL certainly factors, but MD can load up talent just from their own backyard.  That's an advantage over most programs. 

 

- The Arena is still one of the best college arenas.  The new practice facility was apparently needed and will be among the best Nationally. 

- Will MD figure out the NIL?  I don't know. 

 

- I think Willard indicated this past off-season he wanted to avoid having lots of incoming transfers annually...  wanted a more cohesive program...  I think that is going to have to be rethought.  It's basketball. You can drastically change a roster quickly.   

 

- Scott would just be a solid role player on any good team, but he's a very experienced piece.  If him (and particularly Young) weren't back this year, it's hard to imagine how bad MD would be.  

 

- Any regression in Year 2 of a coach definitely / understandably puts everyone on edge. 

 

- For me, the rest of this year is seeing if Willard can get this team to claw back to respectability, and develop the players who figure to return. 

 

 

I think on an annual basis, my expectation for MD is a Top 5 finish within the Big Ten, and winning a game in the NCAAT.
Getting back to the point where they are an annual S16 team (7 Sweet 16s between '93-'94 and '02-'03) should happen. Quickly. 

Regression this year makes me a little nervous. 

 

Over the next 10 years, MD needs to win the conference (regular season or BTT) a couple of times.
There also should be at-least a couple of runs beyond the S16. 

 

That's not too much to ask. 
That really should be the minimal ask for this program. 
But those are larger questions beyond tonight. 

 

Tonight...  go compete against the #1 team in the country, a team you played tight twice last year, and beat once. 
Even a down MD team shouldn't get run off their court vs anyone. 

 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I won’t go so far as to say they got run off their court, but they were never actually in the game. It’s embarrassing. I’m with 2035, blow it up and try again. Keep doing it until you find the next Gary. The next alpha who genuinely believes they can reach the pinnacle of the sport. Go search for up and comers. People who attract talent and develop it, even at lower levels. This is an embarrassment by KW in year 2, and every guy he’s brought in just flat out stinks. Call me negative all you want, this isn’t good enough.

His opening the campaign with a barrage of excuses tells you everything you need to know about his make up. In hindsight, all the fan speak last year was obviously delivered straight from Evans. He was well coached last year as to what the fans wanted to hear, and the team over performed. I’m out on Willard.

Save me the “he’s not going anywhere” posts. I’m aware, thanks. That fact also tells you everything you need to know about the state of Maryland basketball right now. You get what you accept.

So again - what are we doing here? Nothing good. They’re perfectly fine with being mid, with a tourney win every few years. Just completely unacceptable to me.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Saying this year isn't good enough doesn't make you negative... there isn't anyone who would possibly disagree.

[BaltBird 24]

Maryland should never have to hire a guy who was below .500 in conference.

Willard won 58% of his games in 12 years at Seton Hall. He won 48% of his conference games. He won 1 game in the tournament.

Mark Turgeon had a much better resume when hired.

[BSLMikeLowe]

MD got lucky when they hired Gary, in a number of ways. Obviously considering where the program was when he came, few would have wanted that job at the time. But setting the Bias death and NCAA issues aside, they were also lucky because there was a fire in Gary that burned in ways it doesn't for a lot of other coaches. He was a perfect match for the fanbase too....both had a chip on their shoulder and always thought they were slighted by the ACC and Carolina schools (real or perceived). They embraced each other, and it's why he managed to stay while the program was obviously declining and eventually left strictly on his own terms, even though Yow wanted to fire him at one point.

 

All that is to say I don't think MD (and by that I mean the higher administration and big-money donors) necessarily feel like they need to find another Gary. They love to reminisce over drinks at Bentley's, but I think they see it as a bygone era when the game, and college sports in general, were much different than today. I honestly don't think they care enough about athletics, and that goes for any sport you want to name, to want to do what it takes to be among the nation's elite in anything. They'll just thank the Big Ten for taking them in, and cash the checks. Middling-to-good results are fine with the decision-makers, so long as you don't do anything that will embarrass the school....that is the one thing they truly care about.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

MD got lucky when they hired Gary, in a number of ways. Obviously considering where the program was when he came, few would have wanted that job at the time. But setting the Bias death and NCAA issues aside, they were also lucky because there was a fire in Gary that burned in ways it doesn't for a lot of other coaches. He was a perfect match for the fanbase too....both had a chip on their shoulder and always thought they were slighted by the ACC and Carolina schools (real or perceived). They embraced each other, and it's why he managed to stay while the program was obviously declining and eventually left strictly on his own terms, even though Yow wanted to fire him at one point.

 

All that is to say I don't think MD (and by that I mean the higher administration and big-money donors) necessarily feel like they need to find another Gary. They love to reminisce over drinks at Bentley's, but I think they see it as a bygone era when the game, and college sports in general, were much different than today. I honestly don't think they care enough about athletics, and that goes for any sport you want to name, to want to do what it takes to be among the nation's elite in anything. They'll just thank the Big Ten for taking them in, and cash the checks. Middling-to-good results are fine with the decision-makers, so long as you don't do anything that will embarrass the school....that is the one thing they truly care about.

Its beyond obvious they dont care all that much about the athletics. Very much content to be mediocre. 

[BSLZackKiesel]

Yeah, there was hope that Dr. Pines would be more involved with athletics than Dr. Loh (given that his son played for the soccer team). But that hasn’t turned out to be the case, which is unfortunate.

Couple that with a lack of engagement by boosters and a market which doesn’t exactly lend itself to strong college athletics, and you have an acceptance of general mediocrity. There isn’t really much pressure felt by the university (by boosters, fans, or the media) to do better, so this is where we’re at.

[Mackus]

I think this particular team is way worse than even the money/NIL issues can explain.  I think those issues are real and will cap the program's ceiling for a while until the rules change or the Terps find a way to expand the donor base.  But this team isn't bad because they lacked NIL money to give out.  Everything is going wrong.  Nobody is better than last year.  None of the freshman are making an impact or really looking like they're improving (still early, but more exposed when other things are going wrong).  Young is still really good, he didn't really have any room for improvement, so no complaints with his development.  Reese maybe isn't any worse, but he hasn't gotten any better either, and he should have.  Scott has gone backwards.   None of the depth pieces have made any progress...Long, Swanton-Rodger, Batchelor and LaMothe are still barely playable.  

 

I don't know that it means that Willard is going to do a bad job forever, but he's done a terrible job this year.  He has to own a majority amount of the blame for this bad season.  

[BSLChrisStoner]

He (Willard) also had a host of not great quotes after the game last night.

Pressure certainly mounting.

They are going to have to be aggressive in the portal.

[Mike in STL]

Yeah, there was hope that Dr. Pines would be more involved with athletics than Dr. Loh (given that his son played for the soccer team). But that hasn’t turned out to be the case, which is unfortunate.

Couple that with a lack of engagement by boosters and a market which doesn’t exactly lend itself to strong college athletics, and you have an acceptance of general mediocrity. There isn’t really much pressure felt by the university (by boosters, fans, or the media) to do better, so this is where we’re at.

This is a very honest assessment, and the root of all problems for Maryland in the current landscape of major college sports (Football and basketball). Sure, go find another head coach. The results will be the same. The guys they have just aren't good. They couldn't shoot their way out of a wet paper bag. Don't think that's a coaching problem. 

 

The leadership doesn't care. It shows. 

 

I still think Steve Blake is the guy this team needs in the future. Might as well just tell him the job is his if and when he's ready. Boosters will go for it. Apathetic fans of yesteryear will come back. Outside of NIL, he can sell kids on MD because he believes in the product. If it doesn't go well...It's not going well anyway. Some hate to see their beloved players become coaches because eventually you have to fire them and that not how you want to remember a great player. But I think that's just short sighted. If anything, they get a longer leash than an outsider, and anyone with half a brain wouldn't let the coach aspect tarnish the player legacy. 

[Mackus]

He (Willard) also had a host of not great quotes after the game last night.

 

 

I just watched the presser.  Didn't hear much that I didn't like.  Edey and Purdue are very good, and he talked about that.  Took personal blame for lack of halftime adjustments (even when question was framed as those adjustments being positive), identified why and how Reese needs to play better.  Talked about how guys needing to hit open shots.  He mentioned it being a better environment when students are here, which it is, but that didn't sound like an excuse.  Talked about the game being something they can use as an eye-opener for the team to see where they are at and where they need to go.

 

He had one snide remark about putting in a play to get a "wide wide open shot" if merely an "open shot" isn't enough.  But honestly that's fair criticism of the shooters on the team, IMO.

 

https://twitter.com/...0673956939?s=20

[You Play to Win the Game]

He (Willard) also had a host of not great quotes after the game last night.

Pressure certainly mounting.

They are going to have to be aggressive in the portal.

Glad I missed that.

Let me guess, it was unfair for Purdue to be the 3rd conference game on the schedule? It was unfair for Purdue to be scheduled during winter break? It’s unfair that College Park is only 615 miles from West Lafayette, Indiana making it a not-grueling road trip for the Boilermakers? Lastly, it’s unfair that the good Lord ™️ made Reese 7 inches shorter than Edey?

[You Play to Win the Game]

I just watched the presser. Didn't hear much that I didn't like. Edey and Purdue are very good, and he talked about that. Took personal blame for lack of halftime adjustments (even when question was framed as those adjustments being positive), identified why and how Reese needs to play better. Talked about how guys needing to hit open shots. He mentioned it being a better environment when students are here, which it is, but that didn't sound like an excuse. Talked about the game being something they can use as an eye-opener for the team to see where they are at and where they need to go.

He had one snide remark about putting in a play to get a "wide wide open shot" if merely an "open shot" isn't enough. But honestly that's fair criticism of the shooters on the team, IMO.

https://twitter.com/...0673956939?s=20

Ok yeah that isn’t bad. I retract. That said, every single game should’ve been an eye opener. They’ve played like total crap all season. What is that?

[Mike in STL]

I just watched the presser.  Didn't hear much that I didn't like.  Edey and Purdue are very good, and he talked about that.  Took personal blame for lack of halftime adjustments (even when question was framed as those adjustments being positive), identified why and how Reese needs to play better.  Talked about how guys needing to hit open shots.  He mentioned it being a better environment when students are here, which it is, but that didn't sound like an excuse.  Talked about the game being something they can use as an eye-opener for the team to see where they are at and where they need to go.

 

He had one snide remark about putting in a play to get a "wide wide open shot" if merely an "open shot" isn't enough.  But honestly that's fair criticism of the shooters on the team, IMO.

 

https://twitter.com/...0673956939?s=20

This. If your play design leads to open shots, and these guys can't drain them at a decent clip, that's on them. I don't know if at the college level coaches are teaching shooting form. Thats got to be muscle memory for these guys at this point. If they can't shoot, they can't shoot, and these guys certainly cannot shoot. 

[SonicAttack]

All that is to say I don't think MD (and by that I mean the higher administration and big-money donors) necessarily feel like they need to find another Gary. They love to reminisce over drinks at Bentley's, but I think they see it as a bygone era when the game, and college sports in general, were much different than today. I honestly don't think they care enough about athletics, and that goes for any sport you want to name, to want to do what it takes to be among the nation's elite in anything. They'll just thank the Big Ten for taking them in, and cash the checks. Middling-to-good results are fine with the decision-makers, so long as you don't do anything that will embarrass the school....that is the one thing they truly care about.

The UMD admin better worry, because with NIL now, and the top football schools maybe forming a 30 team semi-pro league, or an A tier NIL league, football success and to a lesser extent b-ball, need to be a top priority if UMD wants to remain in an A tier league.

[BSLMikeLowe]

This. If your play design leads to open shots, and these guys can't drain them at a decent clip, that's on them. I don't know if at the college level coaches are teaching shooting form. Thats got to be muscle memory for these guys at this point. If they can't shoot, they can't shoot, and these guys certainly cannot shoot. 

Good shooting comes down to two things IMO….a form that is easily repeatable and confidence. I haven’t looked close enough at the current team’s form to know the former, but I’m pretty sure they are lacking in the latter.

[SonicAttack]

It's obvious that the Terps don't have good 3pt shooters, yet Willard's O sets demand good 3pt shooters.  He doesn't adjust to the strengths of his players; he demands the players adjust to his O.  The same Turge ball, 4out/1in, very little movement or cutting.

[BSLMikeLowe]

The UMD admin better worry, because with NIL now, and the top football schools maybe forming a 30 team semi-pro league, or an A tier NIL league, football success and to a lesser extent b-ball, need to be a top priority if UMD wants to remain in an A tier league.

They’ve had their head in the sand for a long time and still seem to be playing catch-up to the current landscape. I don’t ever expect them to be very prescient or proactive regarding the future. About the only thing they got right was joining the Big Ten, and a lot of people still thought that was a horrible move at the time.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I just watched the presser.  Didn't hear much that I didn't like.  Edey and Purdue are very good, and he talked about that.  Took personal blame for lack of halftime adjustments (even when question was framed as those adjustments being positive), identified why and how Reese needs to play better.  Talked about how guys needing to hit open shots.  He mentioned it being a better environment when students are here, which it is, but that didn't sound like an excuse.  Talked about the game being something they can use as an eye-opener for the team to see where they are at and where they need to go.

 

He had one snide remark about putting in a play to get a "wide wide open shot" if merely an "open shot" isn't enough.  But honestly that's fair criticism of the shooters on the team, IMO.

 

https://twitter.com/...0673956939?s=20

 

I can't find the IMS article I saw earlier... so I'm going off memory vs. having the direct quotes in-front of me... (was the transcript vs watching it).  At any level, I want coaches to point the fingers inward, and not out... particularly want to see that at a college level, when these kids aren't pros. I thought (and possible I glossed over it) that a couple of the quotes came across as more pointing vs. direct accountability.  Nothing huge though, and your interpretation here makes sense.