10 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Orioles.com: Three potential trade chips for O's

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Hard to understand how they kept both Urias and Mateo. Have to think that they know that one of them will be used in a trade package.

[Mackus]

Both the infield and the outfield are overcrowded.  And DH isn't much of a help because you want Rutschman to be there at least 1/4 of the time.

 

Gotta find a trade package for some SP and RP help. 

[Mike B]

I think trading Santander would put huge pressure on the younger hitters,  As for Urias and Mateo, it would not surprise me to see either or both  traded.  

[dude]

I think trading Santander would put huge pressure on the younger hitters, 

 

So when do you want to make a transition?  Santander gets replaced by Kjerstad.  I mean you can just let guys run out to FA and let service define your moves or you manage your roster to the endstate you want.

 

I like AS and if the Orioles extended him (they won't) I'd be good with a Hays-Mullins-Santander OF for the next 3-4 seasons.  None of the OFers we have in the system are necessary.  If you like them and want to use them, cool, but they are clearly not necessary.  Orioles just won 101 games without a product of rebuilding.  The guys that are here are the guys that are here so just manage the roster like you want.  You are always going to have to transition players.  Choices.

 

Mountcastle isn't included in this list, but it's still a choice with him and someone like Mayo.

 

CF Mullins

C Rutschman

3B Henderson

LF Hays

DH OHearn

1B Mayo

RF Kjerstad

2B Westberg

SS Mateo

 

....is a good, young, cost/service controlled lineup and you have guys like Holliday and Basallo coming soon.

[dude]

I guess I understand the notion of "trade chips" Jake is using here, but it's kind of backwards.

 

You make decisions about the roster you want to compete with and you manage assets not in whatever your Plan A is to whatever endstate you want.  It's not static.  You aren't trading 'everyone else' but you still have to understand the next layer (read: opportunity) coming and options and other things.  You can't just stack Talent in the Organization and let the Rules suck the value away from everyone not in the MLB lineup.  That's just dumb.

 

Mateo, Urias and Ortiz are redundant on this roster.  No idea why people want to turn Ortiz into nothing in a bench role. We spent too much time last year trying to fit Urias in.  He needs less playing time on this roster but deserves more opportunity...so put him someplace where he gets more opportunity.  Jon Schoop can fill Urias role on this roster.

 

While I'm suggesting some trade lines that bring back 'pitching' less directly, the notion that you have to trade "this guy for pitching" is false.  You don't have to line things up that way.  You get what you need and if you trade 'these guys' in a way to re-layer needs in the system, awesome.

[dude]

You need to find new opportunity for Ortiz, Norby and Stowers (they are "trade chips").  You aren't trading them "because you don't like them".  You are moving them to places that can promote their opportunity to succeed as MLB players.  They don't care about being Orioles, they care about the opportunity they get to build a career in MLB.  If that's Baltimore, cool, if it's not, cool.

 

Be the Organization that builds Talent and respects career opportunity as you filter to the top. 

 

The obsession to rush Holliday to the Majors and let other player languish in the system with zero comment always seems strange. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

There is zero doubt dude would undervalue and undersell on every last one of his assets. Hes proved it in the past and he continues to prove it. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

You need to find new opportunity for Ortiz, Norby and Stowers (they are "trade chips").  You aren't trading them "because you don't like them".  You are moving them to places that can promote their opportunity to succeed as MLB players.  They don't care about being Orioles, they care about the opportunity they get to build a career in MLB.  If that's Baltimore, cool, if it's not, cool.

 

Be the Organization that builds Talent and respects career opportunity as you filter to the top. 

 

The obsession to rush Holliday to the Majors and let other player languish in the system with zero comment always seems strange. 

Said no GM EVER. Players are traded because of some need they can help a team achieve. No player is traded so they can get a better opportunity to play when they are blocked by a current team's roster. Thats just silly. Now it certainly works for those traded players to indeed get a better shot but that has ZERO to do with why they are traded.

[mdrunning]

Said no GM EVER. Players are traded because of some need they can help a team achieve. No player is traded so they can get a better opportunity to play when they are blocked by a current team's roster. Thats just silly. Now it certainly works for those traded players to indeed get a better shot but that has ZERO to do with why they are traded.

Exactly. it's the old Branch Rickey approach. The best talent is promoted to the big league club, while the excess is either traded or sold (a common practice back then) to help the club in other areas. 

[dude]

Said no GM EVER. Players are traded because of some need they can help a team achieve. No player is traded so they can get a better opportunity to play when they are blocked by a current team's roster. Thats just silly. Now it certainly works for those traded players to indeed get a better shot but that has ZERO to do with why they are traded.

 

You seem to have a perspective on my comment that misses the context of the comment.  I guess that shouldn't be surprising.

 

This happens all of the time.  Teams trade blocked prospects.  They trade them because the Rules of MLB don't allow for raw accumulation so you can't keep everyone.  You make decisions on players and how you want to layer needs.

 

wrt my my comment.  You want an Organization committed to the endstate of winning.  If you want to be a dynamic developer of Talent you will (should, hopefully) develop more Talent than the 26-man (+depth) can handle. If you think Players just happily hang out burning their most needed (career) years in AAA or secondary roles, I think that's crazy.  You want to mess up the Chemistry of your Organization, undermine the opportunity of the Players in your Organization.  I'd use the history of humans as evidence of my position.

 

Orioles likely have a Henderson-Holliday-Westburg-Mayo infield for the next 4-5 years.  There's no room for another player to break into that if they are all reasonably successful.  If you are an infielder (not one of those 4) in the Orioles Organization you know your opportunity to build a career isn't likely in an Oriole uniform.  Sure, anything can happen, but it's pretty easy to see paths (I'd argue 'versatility' is more about that than anything else) and when you (the Player) get to the point of 'need opportunity', you want to find a place that can give you that opportunity.  

 

Selling the fact that you take care of players is valuable in selling development.  You aren't giving them away.  You are figuring out who you want to use on the active roster and how you want to relayer your Organization based on whatever you need to do.

 

It's a comically dumb position to think that Norby and Stowers want to hang out at AAA or Ortiz wants to be UTI player in Baltimore versus getting real opportunity to be a starter somewhere else.  No other GMs are confused by the condition/position of your system so if you don't have useful relationships, you are going to get exploited in trade value especially when the need to move (rules of MLB) is more obvious.

 

Your TRADE CHIPS are the pieces or your Organization that are bumping up against MLB Rules with no MLB opportunity path given whatever decisions you are making for your 26-man.

 

So the Orioles have decisions for players like 

 

Santander and Hays versus MLB ready guys like Cowser and Kerstad

Mountcastle versus Mayo

Ortiz versus Holliday

Westburg versus Norby

Stowers versus everyone in the OF

You can build a path for a guy like Basallo, but he's still a year or 2 away so as is every case, you build your Win NOW and Win LATER plan.

 

You don't have to make trades for specific 2024 needs or anything else.  The Orioles are have decisions to make, we'll see what they do.  Saying you 'like all your guys' is fine, but nobody is confused by the numbers, options, positions on ML roster, etc.