189 replies to this topic

[bmore_ken]

Am I the only one who just noticed Antonio Brown trending on Twitter and got a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach?

I saw him in a Ravens jersey. DeCosta just became man of the year resigning Lamar , he'd better not dare  

[BSLMikeLowe]

I saw him in a Ravens jersey. DeCosta just became man of the year resigning Lamar , he'd better not dare  

 

Perhaps that was the final piece of the puzzle to get Lamar to agree to an extension.

 

(j/k, it wasn't)

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think it was an assurance that pick 1 was a WR. Which is fine by me. Being forced to sign a has been head case in OBJ, not so much.

[Mike B]

The Ravens are not signing Brown.  They have a deep receiving corps now and the last thing they need is Antonio Brown.

[hallas]

I think it was an assurance that pick 1 was a WR. Which is fine by me. Being forced to sign a has been head case in OBJ, not so much.

 

Maybe an either/or with DHop or a pick 1 WR.

 

If Flowers wasn't around it's possible that they would have traded down for DHop.

[mdrunning]

Maybe an either/or with DHop or a pick 1 WR.

 

If Flowers wasn't around it's possible that they would have traded down for DHop.

The Cardinals were reportedly seeking a second round pick and more to part with Hopkins, which is something the Ravens don't have. 

 

If the Ravens had tried to deal for Hopkins, it's almost certain he'd want to renegotiate his contract since neither his 2023 nor his 2024 salaries are guaranteed. I'd pass on that.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I mean so far he hasnt gone to Buf or KC either. I think the ship has sailed on Hopkins here but seems the asking price may have been too high

[Biggsy]

I mean so far he hasnt gone to Buf or KC either. I think the ship has sailed on Hopkins here but seems the asking price may have been too high

Seems like Arizona may be asking for too much. 30 year old Hopkins on a massive contract isn't worth a day 1 or 2 pick IMO. I think he has some juice left. Think he's still good for another season or 2. But unless you feel like you're a WR away from a Superbowl, 1 or maybe 2 years isn't really worth a high potential rookie.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Funny how this whole thing came full circle. Going into the offseason the prevailing thought was the Ravens wanted Lamar and Lamar would be back here. Whether extension, an offer sheet the Ravens matched, or worst case scenario Lamar plays on franchise tag. In the days leading up to and after the offer sheet period we heard all the reports that teams werent going to do the negotiating for the Ravens. There was all the drama that ensued and people buying into trade demands and a bunch of scenarios but it certainly seems like they were indeed just waiting for a team to do the negotiating for them. Thanks Philly.

[Biggsy]

Funny how this whole thing came full circle. In that going into the offseason the prevailing thought was the Ravens wanted Lamar and Lamar would be back here. Whether extension, an offer sheet the Ravens matched, or worst case scenario Lamar plays on franchise tag. In the days leading up to the offer sheet period we heard all the reports that teams werent going to do the negotiating for the Ravens. I think thats why there were no offer sheets. All the drama that ensued and people buying into trade demands and a bunch of scenarios. This certainly seems like they were indeed just waiting for a team to do the negotiating for them. Thanks Philly.

The idea that no one wanted him is asinine. Teams knew the Ravens would match any offer, and didn't want to waste their time. If Lamar were an unrestricted FA, he would have had at least 10 teams seriously interested. May have even been able to generate a bidding war that would have gotten him paid more than what the Ravens gave him.

Personally, I'm glad he's back. I'm glad he's a Raven for the next 5 years. And barring any unforseen circumstances, will probably be one of my favorite Ravens/football players of all time.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The idea that no one wanted him is asinine. Teams knew the Ravens would match any offer, and didn't want to waste their time. If Lamar were an unrestricted FA, he would have had at least 10 teams seriously interested. May have even been able to generate a bidding war that would have gotten him paid more than what the Ravens gave him.

Personally, I'm glad he's back. I'm glad he's a Raven for the next 5 years. And barring any unforseen circumstances, will probably be one of my favorite Ravens/football players of all time.

For sure. Open market he gets more than what he signed for here. Just funny how people got so caught up in the other crap. Thinking he had little value or that he wanted out of BMore and or the Ravens were done with him. Was always about business though I do think Lamar couldve handled things more maturely. I think he always knew he had to get something done longterm this offseason after the way the last two seasons ended. Just didnt know how to close the gap between Watson and Murray/Wilson. I mean you look at the Hurts deal and the Lamar deal and how close they were to each other in both amount and how soon after Lamar signed. Its obvious that was the deal Lamar framed everything around. Didnt even have to give an agent a cut.

[Mike in STL]

Lamar used the league, media, real and social as his agent. He didn’t understand the terms of the original deal. Adam Schefter clapped back what it really was. He had friends pretending to be agents. Twitter and the league told him you can’t do that.

So yeah. He doesn’t need an agent. Kinda like if someone is unemployed, swimming in debt, almost homeless, wins the lottery and says, “see, I never needed a job.”

[Mike in STL]

Still waiting on the details of the contract to come out. How much of that $185M is fully guaranteed?

Previous offer was $133M fully guaranteed. Practically $175M if he survived one season, and $200M total if he survived three.

Savvy on the Ravens part if they just said we'll give you $10M more than Hurts just got. But also dropped the practical guaranteed by $15M. Maybe they tacked it onto the fully GTD part to get it done.

Hensley mentioned in his article when it was announced that the Ravens could free up about $10M in cap space now. I wonder how he came to that number? Daniel Jones came with a $36M signing bonus, and a 2023 base salary of $9.5M. I'd be certain Jackson exceeded that signing bonus. If it is say $50M ($10M cap hit per year) with a 12M base salary in 2023, that would be $22M, which would be "freeing up about $10M in cap space."

5/$250M, $143M fully GTD, $50M signing bonus, $185M total GTD could look something like this. Green being GTD when he signed. Yellow bonus in 2025, call it a roster bonus, kicks in 5th day on the 2024 league year. Yellow base salary in 2026 becomes fully GTD the 5th day of the 2025 league year.

After 2025 you have an out. He plays on a $55M cap hit. Or you cut him before the roster bonus kicks in, but you've paid that base salary already. So, $60M in dead money. Not ideal, but not crippling.
After 2026 you have a big out. $60M in savings if you cut him. He's probably holding out for a new contract by then.

I really hope the contract isn't so backloaded you are forced to restructure in three years. Maybe it can't be if he has so much GTD up front.

[makoman]

Still waiting on the details of the contract to come out. How much of that $185M is fully guaranteed?

Previous offer was $133M fully guaranteed. Practically $175M if he survived one season, and $200M total if he survived three.

Savvy on the Ravens part if they just said we'll give you $10M more than Hurts just got. But also dropped the practical guaranteed by $15M. Maybe they tacked it onto the fully GTD part to get it done.

Hensley mentioned in his article when it was announced that the Ravens could free up about $10M in cap space now. I wonder how he came to that number? Daniel Jones came with a $36M signing bonus, and a 2023 base salary of $9.5M. I'd be certain Jackson exceeded that signing bonus. If it is say $50M ($10M cap hit per year) with a 12M base salary in 2023, that would be $22M, which would be "freeing up about $10M in cap space."

5/$250M, $143M fully GTD, $50M signing bonus, $185M total GTD could look something like this. Green being GTD when he signed. Yellow bonus in 2025, call it a roster bonus, kicks in 5th day on the 2024 league year. Yellow base salary in 2026 becomes fully GTD the 5th day of the 2025 league year.

After 2025 you have an out. He plays on a $55M cap hit. Or you cut him before the roster bonus kicks in, but you've paid that base salary already. So, $60M in dead money. Not ideal, but not crippling.
After 2026 you have a big out. $60M in savings if you cut him. He's probably holding out for a new contract by then.

I really hope the contract isn't so backloaded you are forced to restructure in three years. Maybe it can't be if he has so much GTD up front.

McFarland said it could free up 5-15M, but more if they used void years. I think it's difficult to guess things nowadays because the team showed they might use void years.

 

I doubt Lamar went from wanting Watson guarantees to so readily agreeing to giving the team an out after 2025. If Hurts was the framework he is not practically cuttable until after 2027, per OTC. And even then you have to split over 90M dead money over two years. He'd even have over 90M dead money in 2029 when he isn't there due to voids. Pushes the team into another extension to kick it out further, or have a painful rebuild year.

 

https://overthecap.c...with-the-eagles

 

I hope it's not that bad, but we'll see. In return they get incredibly low cap hits for a few years.

[Steve55]

Unless you look at Hurts contract structure. Over the Cap has his cap hits as 6,13,22,32,42,48, & 97. The last year would be redone if he's still on the team. 1st yr includes his 4th yr original.

[hallas]

Still waiting on the details of the contract to come out. How much of that $185M is fully guaranteed?

Previous offer was $133M fully guaranteed. Practically $175M if he survived one season, and $200M total if he survived three.

Savvy on the Ravens part if they just said we'll give you $10M more than Hurts just got. But also dropped the practical guaranteed by $15M. Maybe they tacked it onto the fully GTD part to get it done.

Hensley mentioned in his article when it was announced that the Ravens could free up about $10M in cap space now. I wonder how he came to that number? Daniel Jones came with a $36M signing bonus, and a 2023 base salary of $9.5M. I'd be certain Jackson exceeded that signing bonus. If it is say $50M ($10M cap hit per year) with a 12M base salary in 2023, that would be $22M, which would be "freeing up about $10M in cap space."

5/$250M, $143M fully GTD, $50M signing bonus, $185M total GTD could look something like this. Green being GTD when he signed. Yellow bonus in 2025, call it a roster bonus, kicks in 5th day on the 2024 league year. Yellow base salary in 2026 becomes fully GTD the 5th day of the 2025 league year.

After 2025 you have an out. He plays on a $55M cap hit. Or you cut him before the roster bonus kicks in, but you've paid that base salary already. So, $60M in dead money. Not ideal, but not crippling.
After 2026 you have a big out. $60M in savings if you cut him. He's probably holding out for a new contract by then.

I really hope the contract isn't so backloaded you are forced to restructure in three years. Maybe it can't be if he has so much GTD up front.

 

While I'm not really sure if something changed, in the past guaranteed money always meant signing bonus, but in recent years teams have guaranteed base salary and/or roster bonuses, which are charged on the cap only for the year they are paid out.  So an upfront guarantee doesn't really mean anything when it comes to the cap hit unless the player is cut.  Lamar obviously won't be cut for the first 2 years of the deal at least, probably longer, so it is pretty irrelevant if we guaranteed him 2.5 or 3 years up front.

 

In practical terms, teams almost always backload the deal at least for year 1 and usually for year 2 as well, because unused cap can carry over anyway.  You can usually work something out to have 1 more manageable cap year in there, without requiring an extension.

 

The team will likely have to restructure after year 4 regardless of what happens.

[hallas]

I'm still at least moderately convinced that Lamar used the demand for a guaranteed deal to give himself some leverage when he told the Ravens to give him some receivers, and came off that demand once the team did so.  The "get OBJ/DHop and we'll talk" seems like that's exactly how it played out.

[Mike in STL]

While I'm not really sure if something changed, in the past guaranteed money always meant signing bonus, but in recent years teams have guaranteed base salary and/or roster bonuses, which are charged on the cap only for the year they are paid out. So an upfront guarantee doesn't really mean anything when it comes to the cap hit unless the player is cut. Lamar obviously won't be cut for the first 2 years of the deal at least, probably longer, so it is pretty irrelevant if we guaranteed him 2.5 or 3 years up front.

In practical terms, teams almost always backload the deal at least for year 1 and usually for year 2 as well, because unused cap can carry over anyway. You can usually work something out to have 1 more manageable cap year in there, without requiring an extension.

The team will likely have to restructure after year 4 regardless of what happens.

I could be wrong but I think base salary is paid out per game. Divide the base salary by 17 and you get a check for that amount each game. If you don’t play, you don’t get that check that week. If that base salary isn't guaranteed and you tear an ACL in preseason, you don’t get it. So hypothetically if Lamar has a $40M base salary in 2024, he has to play to get it if it isn’t guaranteed. For teams to guarantee so much money they have to guarantee base salaries.

I don’t know why they just don’t do roster bonuses. Pay it all at once with minimal base salaries each year. Maybe it’s negotiable. I’m pretty sure every state these guys earn a game check in they get taxed by that state. So I’m sure there is some deal so all the governments get theirs. If your state taxes are high maybe you don’t want that lump sum getting taxed, rather half of it and the other half at lower rates for the road games. Maybe I’m overthinking it.

[Mackus]

Salary for vested vets (4+ years) becomes guaranteed Week 1. To avoid that is why you sometimes see back of roster guys cut at the end of camp and resigned before Week 2.

You get paid even if you're hurt.

Can't technically be released if injured. Can, however, get an injury settlement that pays out salary for however many weeks you'd expect to miss for the injury, up to and including the full season.

[Mike in STL]

Still no details on this? 

 

It's not injury related, guys. You can tell us.