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NBA 2022-23 General Talk (Denver Wins)


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#141 Mike B

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Posted 18 April 2023 - 01:12 PM

Draymond being Draymond.  The guy had his legs wrapped around him, but you can't stomp on a guy and then act surprised when they toss you.

His expression was amusing.  Who me??  That said Sabonis laying on the court like he was about to die was over the top.  


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#142 mweb08

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Posted 18 April 2023 - 07:28 PM

This is by far the best time of year for the NBA, but the regular season is far from awful imo although it should have fewer games. Like with other sports it mostly comes down to if you have a team you're heavily invested in or not. If not, it's hard to get into the regular season of many sports imo. If yes it's a different story, but it would help if that team ain't the Wiz lol.

#143 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 April 2023 - 08:13 PM

This is by far the best time of year for the NBA, but the regular season is far from awful imo although it should have fewer games. Like with other sports it mostly comes down to if you have a team you're heavily invested in or not. If not, it's hard to get into the regular season of many sports imo. If yes it's a different story, but it would help if that team ain't the Wiz lol.


For me, it's what you suggested...the season length. Or more directly, the amount of games missed by the league's best players.

Way too many nights just not clear who will be playing or not. Lots of would be marquee games became ho hum because guys were off.

Maybe the in season tournament will incentivize guys to take less games off.

Or maybe the league will just reduce to 70 games at some point.

#144 mweb08

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Posted 18 April 2023 - 08:50 PM

For me, it's what you suggested...the season length. Or more directly, the amount of games missed by the league's best players.

Way too many nights just not clear who will be playing or not. Lots of would be marquee games became ho hum because guys were off.

Maybe the in season tournament will incentivize guys to take less games off.

Or maybe the league will just reduce to 70 games at some point.

It's also the other thing I said. If you had a team that you cared about like you do the O's, Ravens, and Terps, you'd be much more into the regular season. I think it's hard to overstate the importance of that regarding our fandom of a given sport/league. I mean we've both spent a ton of time watching some trash teams in regular seasons because they're our teams. I've spent time watching trash teams rather than hockey for instance because of that love of individual teams has dictated my sports fandom. Same for many in here but with the NBA. Our viewing habits and thoughts on the individual leagues would be vastly different if our youth was different regarding which teams we became devoted to. I could easily be a hockey guy if my environment was different. Lastly and relatedly, I'm guessing if Baltimore had an NBA team this board wouldn't be such a combination of NBA apathy and NBA bashing.

Anyway, I think the missed games by stars thing is an issue, but it's a bit overblown. Sure, occasionally it sours a matchup that you're planning on watching, but there are still consistently plenty of enticing matchups each week despite that. For a more casual fan, it's not hard to find a couple really good games to check out a week.

I think the total number of games and therefore the lack of importance on each is a bigger factor, although that's related to stars missing games. However, that's an issue in all the major non football sports.

I would actually go well below 70 though.

#145 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 April 2023 - 09:00 PM

Some of that makes sense... but I've been a fan of the NBA since the mid 80s... I've never had a team in that time that I actually cared about, so there is no change there.

Yea, if Baltimore had a team, sure there would be more people interested here.

Maybe Phoenix (Durant) will have an exhibition here next year. Or maybe the Wizards will go back to having a couple of regular season games here. That would be cool.

And below 70 would be fine by me.
Don't think many guys that figure to be on the all nba teams this year hit 70.

#146 mweb08

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Posted 18 April 2023 - 09:27 PM

Some of that makes sense... but I've been a fan of the NBA since the mid 80s... I've never had a team in that time that I actually cared about, so there is no change there.

Yea, if Baltimore had a team, sure there would be more people interested here.

Maybe Phoenix (Durant) will have an exhibition here next year. Or maybe the Wizards will go back to having a couple of regular season games here. That would be cool.


As for the growing up with a team part, I
think it all very much makes sense. And that wasn't solely specific to you, but it still applies to you.

Yeah, you've been an NBA fan since you were a kid, but not the same type of fan that you've been for the local teams. I was that way too. I grew up a Jordan fan, but didn't have a team beyond that beyond a casual liking of the Wiz. If I didn't move out to SoCal during Kobe's rookie year, I likely don't become nearly as into the league as I am today.

Additionally as people become adults they tend to have less time for sports so some fandom is going to fall off. The more general and more casual fandom is a good candidate for that. Especially if you're still going to be as close to all-in as possible on the O's, Ravens, Terps basketball, and Terps football.

That doesn't mean that there aren't other reasons for lessened interest of course. It is however difficult to say the least to be able to say what impact having a team that one truly cares about would have just like it would be difficult to say how much one might be into MLB for instance if brought up in a place with no team and a family that isn't into baseball. What is not difficult to say is all that tends to matter a lot in our fandom.

#147 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 05:31 AM

I mean there is 100% no doubt I would be that much more into the NBA with a team.

It's also true that the realities of being an adult pull me in a lot of directions limiting discretionary time.

But I've been an NBA fan since I was a kid, am still a fan today... and do think the regular season this year wasn't a good product (at-least a significantly watered down product) due to the amount of games missed by the best.

They still have me as a fan, so its whatever though and I'm here for the playoffs.


Draymond gets a 1 game suspension.

#148 mweb08

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 07:58 AM

I mean there is 100% no doubt I would be that much more into the NBA with a team.

It's also true that the realities of being an adult pull me in a lot of directions limiting discretionary time.

But I've been an NBA fan since I was a kid, am still a fan today... and do think the regular season this year wasn't a good product (at-least a significantly watered down product) due to the amount of games missed by the best.

They still have me as a fan, so its whatever though and I'm here for the playoffs.


Draymond gets a 1 game suspension.


This season wasn't worse than recent seasons in that regard though.

Like I said, I think it's overblown.

I will however grant the point that stars missing games hits harder in basketball than in the other sports with the exception of QB's in football. Not to belabor the point, but that is especially true when you don't have a team though. Fans will watch a pretty poor product if their team is involved as we've seen throughout much of our life with the O's.

Like how many times did you set aside a block of time for a game and then have a star not play in it? More than never, but probably not a ton of times either.
Ultimately as I said, there are plenty of good matchups to check out each week that aren't marred by load management. Sure though it sucks that Embiid for instance sat out that Nuggets game though with an apparent minor injury.

The bigger issue imo is for those like myself that actually go to a few games a year. It really sucks to spend good money with the hope of seeing star X and then have that guy miss the game.

#149 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 08:31 AM

This season wasn't worse than recent seasons in that regard though.

Like I said, I think it's overblown.

I will however grant the point that stars missing games hits harder in basketball than in the other sports with the exception of QB's in football. Not to belabor the point, but that is especially true when you don't have a team though. Fans will watch a pretty poor product if their team is involved as we've seen throughout much of our life with the O's.

Like how many times did you set aside a block of time for a game and then have a star not play in it? More than never, but probably not a ton of times either.
Ultimately as I said, there are plenty of good matchups to check out each week that aren't marred by load management. Sure though it sucks that Embiid for instance sat out that Nuggets game though with an apparent minor injury.

The bigger issue imo is for those like myself that actually go to a few games a year. It really sucks to spend good money with the hope of seeing star X and then have that guy miss the game.


It was less that I set aside a block of time to watch vs. when I did have the availability to watch... my perception was there were more guys than usual not available. 

Also beyond watching the games itself, just in-terms of following the league, I found it harder. 

 

For instance, for all of the Embiid, Jokic, and to a lesser degree Giannis MVP talk....  Embiid played 66 (80%) games, Jokic 69 (84%), Giannis 63 (77%).

Great individual seasons for the games they were available, but each with a lot of time missed.
 

Beyond that trio... 

 

Other guys that could be All NBA this year... 

 

SGA 68 games

Curry 56 games
Tatum 74 games

Doncic 66 games 
Mitchell 68 games
Brown 67 games 

Butler 64 games 
Fox 73 games 

Lillard 58 games 
James 55 games
Markkanen 66 games 
Sabonis 79 games
Randle 77 games 

 

Maybe I'm wrong and this is typical, but it feels like different to me that out of the 16 or so guys who had the best perceived seasons, that only 4 of them played 70+ games.   

Of the Top 50 scorers in the game, 11 played 70+ games.  30 played 66 (80%) or less. 

What it told me, is that these guys didn't greatly value the regular season. And it also makes me question the production they did put up individually, when most of them weren't willing to suit up a higher percentage of time. 


Just felt different to me this year at-least, and I think it's indicative of a conscious effort to rest stars more often... even though the NBA has taken steps to reduce back-to-backs, and ease travel. 



 



#150 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 08:33 AM



#151 mweb08

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 09:20 AM


It was less that I set aside a block of time to watch vs. when I did have the availability to watch... my perception was there were more guys than usual not available.

Also beyond watching the games itself, just in-terms of following the league, I found it harder.

For instance, for all of the Embiid, Jokic, and to a lesser degree Giannis MVP talk.... Embiid played 66 (80%) games, Jokic 69 (84%), Giannis 63 (77%).

Great individual seasons for the games they were available, but each with a lot of time missed.

Beyond that trio...

Other guys that could be All NBA this year...

SGA 68 games
Curry 56 games
Tatum 74 games
Doncic 66 games
Mitchell 68 games
Brown 67 games
Butler 64 games
Fox 73 games
Lillard 58 games
James 55 games
Markkanen 66 games
Sabonis 79 games
Randle 77 games

Maybe I'm wrong and this is typical, but it feels like different to me that out of the 16 or so guys who had the best perceived seasons, that only 4 of them played 70+ games.

Of the Top 50 scorers in the game, 11 played 70+ games. 30 played 66 (80%) or less.

What it told me, is that these guys didn't greatly value the regular season. And it also makes me question the production they did put up individually, when most of them weren't willing to suit up a higher percentage of time.


Just felt different to me this year at-least, and I think it's indicative of a conscious effort to rest stars more often... even though the NBA has taken steps to reduce back-to-backs, and ease travel.




I can't argue with how you feel.

It wasn't especially different though and it's not new. I agree that it's not great but there's plenty of good games to watch for any true fans that seek out basketball.

A lot of those missed games were due to legit injuries as well.

#152 ivanbalt

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 01:32 PM

I doubt NBA would ever shorten the season.  Owners want the revenue and players want the massive max contracts and games are needed to fulfill that even if players are only available for 80% or less.  The league made the regular season even more worthless with the play in.



#153 mweb08

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 02:05 PM

I doubt NBA would ever shorten the season. Owners want the revenue and players want the massive max contracts and games are needed to fulfill that even if players are only available for 80% or less. The league made the regular season even more worthless with the play in.


We'll likely never know, but I'd love to be able to compare revenue to alternative universes with variously reduced seasons. I'd like to see if each game being more valuable to the season would translate to higher demand for tickets and viewership.

The play in can make the regular season less important but it also can work the other way depending on the circumstances. This year, it made a lot of regular season games in the West more important than they otherwise would have been.

Ultimately I think it's roughly a wash, so the regular season remains in the ballpark of importance of the other major sports with the exception of football. So not tremendously important.

#154 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 06:24 PM

I can't argue with how you feel.

It wasn't especially different though and it's not new. I agree that it's not great but there's plenty of good games to watch for any true fans that seek out basketball.

A lot of those missed games were due to legit injuries as well.

Agreed. It's called the Big 12. ;)



#155 mweb08

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 06:25 PM

Agreed. It's called the Big 12. ;)


Lol

More meaningless regular season games!
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#156 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 06:37 PM

Lol

More meaningless regular season games!

But sooooo much fun.

In all seriousness, I’m just having fun. I watched a lot more NBA this year due to the sports books. It’s a phenomenal product. The skill level is at an inarguable all-time high, and so is the level of play IMO. I think it’s so efficient these days, that it almost feels like an exhibition - sometimes being that good at something creates an optical illusion of it being effortless or easy. I don’t know, that’s my take on it, but I did find it very enjoyable myself.

But there is a psychology to there being lulls and challenges throughout a contest making the big scoring moments all the more exciting and thrilling. But I often find myself shaking my head at the god awful execution in football games, but it’s the story arc that grabs people.

So yeah. The NBA has gotten *too* good, if anything. Which is a weird criticism. Similar to how good the pitching has gotten over the years in baseball.
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#157 mweb08

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 06:53 PM

I would be in favor of reigning in the offense some. Same with football for that matter.
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#158 mweb08

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Posted 19 April 2023 - 07:40 PM

But sooooo much fun.

In all seriousness, I’m just having fun. I watched a lot more NBA this year due to the sports books. It’s a phenomenal product. The skill level is at an inarguable all-time high, and so is the level of play IMO. I think it’s so efficient these days, that it almost feels like an exhibition - sometimes being that good at something creates an optical illusion of it being effortless or easy. I don’t know, that’s my take on it, but I did find it very enjoyable myself.

But there is a psychology to there being lulls and challenges throughout a contest making the big scoring moments all the more exciting and thrilling. But I often find myself shaking my head at the god awful execution in football games, but it’s the story arc that grabs people.

So yeah. The NBA has gotten *too* good, if anything. Which is a weird criticism. Similar to how good the pitching has gotten over the years in baseball.


Those lulls and challenges must really help with your O's and Terps fandom! Always meaningful regular season games!

#159 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 20 April 2023 - 08:20 AM



#160 Mike B

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Posted 20 April 2023 - 02:47 PM

The Bucks put up 81 points in the first half last night.  They shot the lights out, but the Heat's defensive effort was awful.

The Heat had a chance to go home up 2-0.  They did not show up.  That may come back to bite them.


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