5723 replies to this topic

[cprenegade]

I think the Ravens would still happily pay Lamar a deal they think is reasonable. Maybe that's still their offer from September, maybe something less, but I'd be very surprised if they are done with him or only willing to go one year on the tag. Their actions (or inactions in regards to a trade or pursuing other QBs) don't really reflect that.

 

I'm not sure if anyone really knows what the Ravens are thinking at this point.  Some of the rumors are that the best offer they extended is now off the table.  I can see that.  

 

I think there was a definite shift in their public face last week at the pre draft meeting.  I know, it's "Liar's lunch".  But the point is at every public function when asked about Lamar it was, "We want Lamar here, we still think we can get a deal done."  Or from Harbaugh, "We love Lamar.  I'm preparing for him to be our QB for a long time."  Last week it was, "We're not going to talk about that today."  And nothing from Harbaugh.  Who knows what the Ravens are doing behind the scenes?  

 

One thing I have a hard time believing is that the Raven's FO is going to put up with this much longer.  They agreed not to negotiate in the press, and Lamar has broken that on twitter.  It sounds like they have made every attempt to compensate him adequately, and he keeps refusing.  This isn't the way a franchise that is well respected among the league likes to operate.  They won't be vindictive, but at some point in time I think they are going to decide Lamar is just not worth the baggage he is building up.  

[Mike in STL]

I don't believe any of them. I have a hard time believing that EDC is giving out actual numbers and relevant information to anyone but Lamar. I have no problem with any of you who do. It just seems to me they all want to be the one to break the next big Lamar story so they throw stuff out there and attribute it to "sources" that are never named. As far as the non exclusive tag, that was a 50/50 opportunity story. Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

At least in the case of the contract offer made last Summer, Adam Schefter says he saw the contract, he read the contract. That’s stronger than “sources say”, even from the most reliable insider in the sport, probably in any sport. Lamar tweeting the numbers he has, further confirm those reported numbers. And Schefter went back on national tv to explain again what the contract details were that Lamar was omitting in his vague tweets. Because his credibility is on the line and Lamar challenged that, and lost.

Anyone continuing to ignore the original offer because it came from a reporter rather than Lamar emailing everyone a PDF of the contract is just burying their head in the sand.

[cprenegade]

I don't believe any of them. I have a hard time believing that EDC is giving out actual numbers and relevant information to anyone but Lamar. I have no problem with any of you who do. It just seems to me they all want to be the one to break the next big Lamar story so they throw stuff out there and attribute it to "sources" that are never named. As far as the non exclusive tag, that was a 50/50 opportunity story. Even a broken clock is right two times a day. 

 

I get it, but I do believe some of them have inside sources.  Just like news reporters do.  They couldn't continue to make their salaries if they weren't producing results.  

 

You're right about the tag being a 50/50 proposition simply because there are only two tag designations.  But up until a few weeks before the tag everyone assumed if the Raven's had to use the tag it was going to be the exclusive tag to keep anyone from poaching him.  

 

The NFL is a business and only that.  I certainly believe some money under the table can buy you inside information.  It does in politics where the stakes are way higher so why not in the NFL?

[hallas]

I don't get the question / hypothetical here... obviously there is no scenario where Jackson would fail to get a deal done with any team.


However, the answer here is obviously 100% Lamar.

Players (talented as they may be) come and go.
The Ravens would move on, with of without Jackson and still be one of 32 teams. They'd rebound at some point.
If Harbaugh and EDC would maintain confidence from Bisciotti, that's one answer.
Another is that Harbaugh and EDC wouldn't have a hard time finding new jobs if they were available either.

There's a worst case scenario for the Ravens where they fail to be relevant for 5-10 years because the Ravens suck post-Lamar, EDC and Harbaugh get fired, and we end up with uncertainty at GM, HC, and quarterback.

Lamar is only a loser here in the sense that he has a chance to create an enduring legacy in the NFL and if he walks away he loses that chance. He's done pretty well for himself by normal people standards, but maybe that's still "losing" compared to what he could have had.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

There's a worst case scenario for the Ravens where they fail to be relevant for 5-10 years because the Ravens suck post-Lamar, EDC and Harbaugh get fired, and we end up with uncertainty at GM, HC, and quarterback.

Lamar is only a loser here in the sense that he has a chance to create an enduring legacy in the NFL and if he walks away he loses that chance. He's done pretty well for himself by normal people standards, but maybe that's still "losing" compared to what he could have had.

Could be longer than 5-10 years

[bmore_ken]

At least in the case of the contract offer made last Summer, Adam Schefter says he saw the contract, he read the contract. 

So DeCosta just shows reporters contracts? Right.

[bmore_ken]

I get it, but I do believe some of them have inside sources.  Just like news reporters do.  They couldn't continue to make their salaries if they weren't producing results.  

 

You're right about the tag being a 50/50 proposition simply because there are only two tag designations.  But up until a few weeks before the tag everyone assumed if the Raven's had to use the tag it was going to be the exclusive tag to keep anyone from poaching him.  

 

The NFL is a business and only that.  I certainly believe some money under the table can buy you inside information.  It does in politics where the stakes are way higher so why not in the NFL?

No one at that point knew Lamar had already requested a trade.

[bmore_ken]

Could be longer than 5-10 years

Nahh the NFL is the one sport where you can go from zero to the SB  in a few years. History bears that out. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

If the Ravens were to be irrelevant for 5-10 years that would have zero to do with no signing Lamar. Zero.

[makoman]

So DeCosta just shows reporters contracts? Right.

There were zero leaks for like two years of negotiations, then the union gets involved and suddenly there's leaks all over the place. We can infer something there even if we don't know for sure.

[Slidemaster]

So DeCosta just shows reporters contracts? Right.

Or Lamar and his camp, or the players union.

[Mike in STL]

So DeCosta just shows reporters contracts? Right.

Could be anyone. It actually was smart for the Ravens to leak (if they did) the offer before Lamar’s self imposed no more negotiation deadline so that the Ravens appear to be the ones trying.

I don’t even know if these things are even “leaks”. Or if it’s just information readily available to everyone in the league.

[bmore_ken]

There were zero leaks for like two years of negotiations, then the union gets involved and suddenly there's leaks all over the place. We can infer something there even if we don't know for sure.

What evidence do you have that they've been negotiating for two years?

[bmore_ken]

Or Lamar and his camp, or the players union.

Where's the evidence of that?

[makoman]

What evidence do you have that they've been negotiating for two years?

The Ravens' own website discussing negotiations in July 2021, is that close enough?

 

https://www.baltimor...hly-with-adviso

 

It is primarily discussing a Florio article, which I'm sure you'll say is not credible, but if it was false I'd think that again the team's own website wouldn't bring it up.

 

ETA

Even better, April 30, 2021

 

https://www.baltimor...contract-option

 

Talks between Jackson and the Ravens will continue as they work to reach an agreement before 2022.

 

"That's ongoing," General Manager Eric DeCosta said during the team's pre-draft media conference. "That's definitely a fluid thing. Lamar and I have had a discussion about that. It's important to us, and it's important to him. Lamar is obviously a very patient guy. He wants to be the best he can be. He wants this team to be the best it can be, and he wants to win very badly. So, we're aligned that way. I'm confident that we'll continue to discuss this, and I think at some point, hopefully, we'll have some good news for everybody."

[bmore_ken]

The Ravens' own website discussing negotiations in July 2021, is that close enough?

 

https://www.baltimor...hly-with-adviso

 

It is primarily discussing a Florio article, which I'm sure you'll say is not credible, but if it was false I'd think that again the team's own website wouldn't bring it up.

 

ETA

Even better, April 30, 2021

 

https://www.baltimor...contract-option

Works for me

[cprenegade]

There's a worst case scenario for the Ravens where they fail to be relevant for 5-10 years because the Ravens suck post-Lamar, EDC and Harbaugh get fired, and we end up with uncertainty at GM, HC, and quarterback.

Lamar is only a loser here in the sense that he has a chance to create an enduring legacy in the NFL and if he walks away he loses that chance. He's done pretty well for himself by normal people standards, but maybe that's still "losing" compared to what he could have had.

 

What do you consider being relevant?  Since winning the Superbowl in the 2012 season the Ravens have won exactly 2 playoff games and have 0 AFC championship appearances.  Even with Lamar they haven't won more than one playoff game and not advanced past the divisional round. 

 

It's hard for me to imagine the Ravens ever being a consistent sub 500 team because they are a good organization and they draft too well.  But that hasn't always translated into playoff success.   

[hallas]

What do you consider being relevant? Since winning the Superbowl in the 2012 season the Ravens have won exactly 2 playoff games and have 0 AFC championship appearances. Even with Lamar they haven't won more than one playoff game and not advanced past the divisional round.

It's hard for me to imagine the Ravens ever being a consistent sub 500 team because they are a good organization and they draft too well. But that hasn't always translated into playoff success.

I guess it boils down to how much you trust Bisciotti to pick a good GM/HC if we are bad and EDC hits the road. Or if he is going to stick with them.

I could definitely see a scenario where the Ravens go like 2-15 and gets EDC fired, and the successor isn't as good and it leads to more bad seasons. If the Ravens stick with EDC then maybe he can figure out a way to pull himself out of it.

[Ravens2006]

DeCosta is a bigger reason why the Ravens are typically a perennial playoff contender. He will succeed wherever he works provided he also has a competent game day coach / staff.

Harbaugh will underachieve wherever he goes because he is the main problem with a very faulty game day staff. His teams have success in spite of his post-kickoff failings, because of the talent assembled at the DeCosta / Newsome levels.

And so I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Slidemaster]

Where's the evidence of that?

There isn't any hard evidence other than Lamar openly discussing contract details of his offers on twitter. But you were speaking as though it is only DeCosta who might leak a contract. It isn't.