578 replies to this topic

[ivanbalt]

Can Wink fix what is becoming a historically bad pass defense?

[jamesdean]

Getting clowned by Samaje Perine for a 41 yard td is disgraceful. How terrible that defense played was disgraceful.

When I finally saw Chase's 82 yard TD romp, it was almost comical.  I mean, how in the hell does he come out from all those arms? Does anyone on this defense actually want to bring someone to the ground? On a brighter note, I hear the Baltimore Dance Company is looking for students. 

[NewMarketSean]

Defense isn’t good and wouldn’t be much better with Peters. Gonna have to figure out a way to tackle and avoid the gigantic plays. 
 

Disappointed to get blown off our home field by the Bengals but I’m over freaking out about bad regular season losses. This team will make the playoffs barring a huge collapse and anything can happen once you get in. Especially with a QB like Lamar and a kicker like Tucker. 
 

So I’ll save the doom and gloom for a playoff loss. We regularly make the playoffs for the last two decades so more fans should probably have the same outlook. Freaking out about a home loss in October really doesn’t do you any good. 

[Biggsy]

Can Wink fix what is becoming a historically bad pass defense?

I mean, a DC can only do so much. It comes down to the players executing. When Chase catches a 7 yard slant and makes 3 people miss, and takes it 80 yards for a TD. Or watching your best "cover" corner get roasted by a TE for a 60 yard TD. Or watching 3 guys run to cover the same guy while a TE runs straight toward the endzone uncovered, in an obvious miscommunication on the field. I'm not even really sure what Wink can do about that.

[Mike in STL]

I mean, a DC can only do so much. It comes down to the players executing. When Chase catches a 7 yard slant and makes 3 people miss, and takes it 80 yards for a TD. Or watching your best "cover" corner get roasted by a TE for a 60 yard TD. Or watching 3 guys run to cover the same guy while a TE runs straight toward the endzone uncovered, in an obvious miscommunication on the field. I'm not even really sure what Wink can do about that.

I would like to double down on that. I would almost bet the Ravens are one of the, if not the worst in YAC allowed. 

 

Ravens Passing yards allowed

Raiders - 409

Chiefs - 343

Lions - 192

Broncos - 148

Colts - 390

Chargers - 182

Bengals - 409

 

In the games they allowed a ton of yards, there were notable big plays that a defense adhering to fundamentals don't allow. Zay Jones running uncontested in the Raiders game. No one could tackle Travis Kelce in the Chiefs game. Averett had a bad game against the Colts. Then all the stuff you mentioned about yesterday leading to about 140 YAC alone. If you shave 300 yards off their season total for sheer stupidity, they are probably 20th in passing and not 30th. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think coaches should get blame for fundamentals too.

Anyway, looking for positives, Lamar was able to go back to the well successfully with the deep ball to Brown again yesterday. That's now a consistent threat.

[Bmore Irish]

Well, at least Bateman looks as good as advertised. Was there ever any word on what Mekari's injury was?

[ivanbalt]

I mean, a DC can only do so much. It comes down to the players executing. When Chase catches a 7 yard slant and makes 3 people miss, and takes it 80 yards for a TD. Or watching your best "cover" corner get roasted by a TE for a 60 yard TD. Or watching 3 guys run to cover the same guy while a TE runs straight toward the endzone uncovered, in an obvious miscommunication on the field. I'm not even really sure what Wink can do about that.

Ok, he's not responsible for some of the big plays.  But they couldn't get to Burrow and it seemed like every time they needed a first down someone was wide open.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Well, at least Bateman looks as good as advertised. Was there ever any word on what Mekari's injury was?

Ankle. But not sure if a sprain or a tear (kidding, that was for McNulty).

[Ravens2006]

I mean, a DC can only do so much. It comes down to the players executing. When Chase catches a 7 yard slant and makes 3 people miss, and takes it 80 yards for a TD. Or watching your best "cover" corner get roasted by a TE for a 60 yard TD. Or watching 3 guys run to cover the same guy while a TE runs straight toward the endzone uncovered, in an obvious miscommunication on the field. I'm not even really sure what Wink can do about that.

I'm a broken record on this, but Wink's resistance to using safeties as coverage assets in games against top tier passing threats is an issue to me. The position is named Safety because the idea is it's a last line of defense to prevent the big play. If guys at the line miscommunicate and a guy gets a free open release, a safety can react and try to pick him up, or support over the top. At minimum make a tackle or slow him down enough for pursuit to catch up.

There was one play yesterday where Clark lined up close to the line (like everybody) and neither bailed out, nor blitzed. He literally just sort of dances around at the line without committing to ANYTHING. Part of that is Clark, and part of that is on Wink for aligning him there to begin with.

[PrimeTime]

I was on radio silence during the game yesterday but watched it last night. Eesh.....that was a bloodbath. 

 

Without getting into the who, what, why, etc; if we were going to taken out to the woodshed, I'm kind of glad it happened before the bye like this. Now, we won't be drunk on ourselves at 6-1. After a couple of days off, they need to get back after it big time. The constant breakdowns on defense cannot solely be due to Marcus Peters' absence. Know the call, be where you're supposed to be and try tackling somebody. 

[jamesdean]

I was on radio silence during the game yesterday but watched it last night. Eesh.....that was a bloodbath. 

 

Without getting into the who, what, why, etc; if we were going to taken out to the woodshed, I'm kind of glad it happened before the bye like this. Now, we won't be drunk on ourselves at 6-1. After a couple of days off, they need to get back after it big time. The constant breakdowns on defense cannot solely be due to Marcus Peters' absence. Know the call, be where you're supposed to be and try tackling somebody. 

[Mackus]

I don't think that any one of the Ravens problems is in itself a fatal flaw.  And I don't think they have to solve all of the problems in order to be good.  If they had no problems, they'd be flawless, and that's not a reasonable expectation.

 

I expect that each loss we'll be able to point to one or two of these weaknesses as the reason.  Yesterday was basically all of them at once (running backs, O-line, secondary coverage, tackling in general...no drops or turnovers so I guess not every problem).  But also don't think that each problem will show up in every game, so some games will be pretty clean and look really good (like last week).  Other weeks some problems will show up and others won't (like against Indy).   Some weeks they will overcome the problems, some weeks they won't.

 

I could see the secondary concerns being fixed through better play and coaching.  Still have a good and deep secondary even without Peters, so I think it's possible that just simply gets better.  The rest, I'm less confident about.  The running backs cannot improve, they will be who they are unless we trade for another similar but hopefully slightly better guy this week.  I don't anticipate another Alex Collins type discovery late this season to fix that position.  Offensive line it's possible could get healthy and gel, but usually lots of nagging injuries continue to mount and the depth really isn't there.  Zeitler is the only guy on the line so far who's been both healthy and good all season.  

[Slidemaster]

I don't think that any one of the Ravens problems is in itself a fatal flaw. And I don't think they have to solve all of the problems in order to be good. If they had no problems, they'd be flawless, and that's not a reasonable expectation.

I expect that each loss we'll be able to point to one or two of these weaknesses as the reason. Yesterday was basically all of them at once (running backs, O-line, secondary coverage, tackling in general...no drops or turnovers so I guess not every problem). But also don't think that each problem will show up in every game, so some games will be pretty clean and look really good (like last week). Other weeks some problems will show up and others won't (like against Indy). Some weeks they will overcome the problems, some weeks they won't.

I could see the secondary concerns being fixed through better play and coaching. Still have a good and deep secondary even without Peters, so I think it's possible that just simply gets better. The rest, I'm less confident about. The running backs cannot improve, they will be who they are unless we trade for another similar but hopefully slightly better guy this week. I don't anticipate another Alex Collins type discovery late this season to fix that position. Offensive line it's possible could get healthy and gel, but usually lots of nagging injuries continue to mount and the depth really isn't there. Zeitler is the only guy on the line so far who's been both healthy and good all season.

To me, their flaws are bad enough that they don't have a very realistic chance of winning the SB. That constitutes a fatal flaw to me. Anything can happen of course, but I'd bet that if they make the playoffs, their SB odds are worse than most other teams who get there.

Also, they really haven't beaten anybody aside from LAC. Their SoS felt good when we thought KC and Denver were good, but we know now that they aren't. Basically makes their only good win the LAC game.

[ivanbalt]

To me, their flaws are bad enough that they don't have a very realistic chance of winning the SB. That constitutes a fatal flaw to me. Anything can happen of course, but I'd bet that if they make the playoffs, their SB odds are worse than most other teams who get there.

Also, they really haven't beaten anybody aside from LAC. Their SoS felt good when we thought KC and Denver were good, but we know now that they aren't. Basically makes their only good win the LAC game.

I think it's way too soon to decided whether they can win a SB. 

 

I don't think most people thought Denver were good, but KC was definitely good when the Ravens beat them.  Their offense is in a funk now, but it was explosive then and will likely recover.

[Ravens2006]

I'm sort of past the "good win" thing. In the NFL any win is a good win. Especially a road game. The Ravens have 5 good wins as far as I'm concerned at this point. Power rankings in the NFL are completely pointless to me. Who cares who anybody THINKS is the best, or top 5 best, or bottom 5 worst, teams in the league on October 26th? In the end, this isn't an opinion based ranking system like college ball... You earn your way in based on results and established guidelines.

The NFL decides which teams make the playoffs. That's what matters. And once you get there, it's a combination of week to week team execution and performance, health, coaching, a lucky or bad bounce, etc. And QB play.

The emotional week to week swings of public opinion with NFL football are pretty wild...

I still remember the game threads and post game threads from 2012 when the Ravens got blasted at home by the Broncos in week 16. Joe sucked, everybody sucked, they would lose the next week and miss out, or they'd be one and done at best, better to miss and get a higher draft pick, etc. 6 weeks or so later we're all at the Lombardi parade and party.

[Mackus]

I think it's fair to be disappointed on a larger scale of the overall performance of the Ravens the last two years.  They should be an inner circle Super Bowl favorite while Lamar is on his rookie deal.  He's an MVP level QB playing for free, so you can stack the roster around him.  Different reasons for falling short of that last year and this year, but regardless, we're well short of that level.  Next year he'll be expensive but not absurd.  Maybe could do that again in 2023 depending on his contract structure.  After 2023 Lamar will be a massive portion of the cap and it'll be harder to fill a great roster around him.  This is/was a golden opportunity.  If they don't get to a Super Bowl before Lamar gets paid, I think it's entirely reasonable to view that as a failure over bigger picture of those multiple seasons.

 

However, Ravens2006 and others are right that the team still is good enough to get into the dance and once you're there everyone has a shot.  I'm disappointed that the Ravens look like they'll only be one of those teams with a shot and not one of the favorites (assuming things continue like they have this year, which is a risky assumption), but given the preseason and Week 1 injuries I think that would be a solid performance overall from the guys who are on the active roster.  It's not wildly successful, but I can't view that as a failure from within that zoomed in scope of who was here when the games started.  And it's still entirely plausible that things get better.  Defenses and offensive line play can get fixed without massive personnel change, as those units rely largely on how guys play together and not just how good each individual might be.  I'm not resigned to this year ending as merely a solid season given the injuries.

[Mike in STL]

I can’t stand when the coaches make statements as if we don’t watch football, or even watch the game. Harbaugh said yesterday that 57, 58 yard kicks were out of Tuckers range, and there was a cross wind making those low percentage kicks.

First off, the first try they passed up was from 55. Not 57,58. He has to get that right. The second would have been from 57. Secondly, the opponent made from 52, easily, down the middle. Maybe someone in attendance can attest to the wind, but the announcer at one point mentioned the flags laying flat, as if to say wind not a factor. Their guy can make from 52, and you’re not even gonna try the best kicker in the world from three yards further?

I don’t expect Harbaugh to admit to being conservative on Sunday, since he prides himself on being aggressive (though at times in the past aggressive meant stupid). But he was conservative. Don’t insult us in the process.

[Biggsy]

I can’t stand when the coaches make statements as if we don’t watch football, or even watch the game. Harbaugh said yesterday that 57, 58 yard kicks were out of Tuckers range, and there was a cross wind making those low percentage kicks.

First off, the first try they passed up was from 55. Not 57,58. He has to get that right. The second would have been from 57. Secondly, the opponent made from 52, easily, down the middle. Maybe someone in attendance can attest to the wind, but the announcer at one point mentioned the flags laying flat, as if to say wind not a factor. Their guy can make from 52, and you’re not even gonna try the best kicker in the world from three yards further?

I don’t expect Harbaugh to admit to being conservative on Sunday, since he prides himself on being aggressive (though at times in the past aggressive meant stupid). But he was conservative. Don’t insult us in the process.

Called that when he passed on kicking them. Clearly Cincy has the superior kicker. 🙄