163 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

http://www.baltimore...t.co/ALBweMESca

I’m not starting this in hopes of hearing Trea have some emotional rant.

It does seem that it will be going that way.

Again, I don’t think this is a bad thing. I would rather have the service time for Sisco anyway.

It will be interesting to watch these 2 in ST.

Another aspect to this I'm interested in watching is if Wynns can replace Joseph and we trade Caleb.

I’m actually for extending Caleb but if Wynns can be the same guy for a lot less money, that works well too.

[McNulty]

If Wynns is a defensive backup catcher anyway no matter how much development time, its the right move.  

[CA-ORIOLE]

Not surprising considering Buck's interviews/statements. I'd rather he catch a couple months than add another veteran catcher to the roster. If we're two months in to the season and Buck is still slow walking and mealy mouthing Sisco, I'm gonna be concerned. 

[Mackus]

I'll take all of Sisco's 2024 season over the first two months of Sisco's 2018 season.

 

If I thought we were a contender, it'd make those first two months have more value than they do with us being a pretender.  I had no problems with Manny or some others starting the season on the team rather than playing service time games, because their contributions were a part of something valuable.

[Mackus]

And if they do play service time games with Sisco it means that they think the team stinks, too.

[BSLChrisStoner]

And if they do play service time games with Sisco it means that they think the team stinks, too.

 

Now this is a great point.

[Mackus]

Same goes for Hays with me, too.  I'd send him and Sisco both to Norfolk.

 

Actually, it wouldn't even just be for service time shenanigans with Hays.  I think he genuinely would benefit from another 1/2 season or more in the minors, specifically Norfolk where he's never played before.  I think he needs to focus on toning down his uber-aggressive approach.  I think advanced pitchers will be able to exploit that.
 

Sisco I think is 100% ready.  I only send him down to gain the extra year of control on the back end.  I wouldn't worry about trying to hold him back to avoid Super-2 qualification.  Though I may have if we didn't already get his clock started.

[Mike B]

I'll take all of Sisco's 2024 season over the first two months of Sisco's 2018 season.

 

If I thought we were a contender, it'd make those first two months have more value than they do with us being a pretender.  I had no problems with Manny or some others starting the season on the team rather than playing service time games, because their contributions were a part of something valuable.

This!!

The Orioles are likely going to stink this year.  I am all for saving Hays and Sisco's service time for down the road, when hopefully we are not in another 14 year Angelos rebuilding program.

[JTrea81]

I've said my piece on what I think of Sisco vs. Wynns.

 

However, the one thing I keep thinking about is that no other organization makes this big a deal over catching.  I think the Orioles overemphasize certain things like throwing because they are overly reliant on the catcher to make the pitchers better.

 

If Sisco were in any other organization like the Yankees or Red Sox, he'd be starting because of what his bat brought to the lineup for his position and he wouldn't have to worry as much about the defensive part, so he'd have a better chance to reach his offensive potential.

[Mackus]

You're such a liar.

[BSLChrisStoner]

You're such a liar.

 

I think he's wrong, but don't think he's a liar. 

I think he believes what he believes.

I guess my biggest indictment on Trea would be that he backs into positions, and just becomes entrenched there.

[SportsGuy]

I've said my piece on what I think of Sisco vs. Wynns.

However, the one thing I keep thinking about is that no other organization makes this big a deal over catching. I think the Orioles overemphasize certain things like throwing because they are overly reliant on the catcher to make the pitchers better.

If Sisco were in any other organization like the Yankees or Red Sox, he'd be starting because of what his bat brought to the lineup for his position and he wouldn't have to worry as much about the defensive part, so he'd have a better chance to reach his offensive potential.

Every team values defense in their back up C.

Joseph, for the time being, is the starter. He has earned that.

[SportsGuy]

I've said my piece on what I think of Sisco vs. Wynns.

However, the one thing I keep thinking about is that no other organization makes this big a deal over catching. I think the Orioles overemphasize certain things like throwing because they are overly reliant on the catcher to make the pitchers better.

If Sisco were in any other organization like the Yankees or Red Sox, he'd be starting because of what his bat brought to the lineup for his position and he wouldn't have to worry as much about the defensive part, so he'd have a better chance to reach his offensive potential.

Is that why the Red Sox moved former top prospect Blake Swihart from behind the plate and still can’t find a place to play him despite his offensive potential?

[JTrea81]

Every team values defense in their back up C.

Joseph, for the time being, is the starter. He has earned that.

 

If Sisco outhits him and calls a good game, sets a good target, than he deserves to be the starter even if he can't throw out 30% of runners right?

 

Houston started two catchers that combined threw out only 12% of baserunners last season.

 

The point being because the Orioles have more trouble keeping runners off the basepaths, that Buck and Russell are obsessed with catchers throwing runners out more than other teams and cause their catchers to focus more on that aspect.

 

I don't see how that is such a leap.

[dude]

I'll take all of Sisco's 2024 season over the first two months of Sisco's 2018 season.

 

I guess I just don't know why suddenly a service time game would be important for a player it's likely irrelevent to worry about later.

 

Are we so concerned he's going to blow up into a All-Star or HoF caliber that his required investment would out-strip the teams' ability to make a reasonable deal at some point 3 years from now?

 

If they really don't like Sisco for whatever reasons, they should absolutely trade him now before they back his value down with their approach.

 

I don't need Joseph to help with Wynns offense....that's just about reps and playing everyday (catcher or DH)

I absolutely want Joseph's help building up Sisco's defensive profile.  Caleb had an undistinguished defensive reputation in the minors but he's certainly been excellent and he may be the most help of anyone with Sisco's defensive maturation.  

 

I don't buy the "Caleb is the starter" thing.  Does he really care?  He's a catcher in his early 30s...his window is already small...guarantee him some money and value what he does best.  He'll be coaching in your minor league system in the next 5 years.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I've said my piece on what I think of Sisco vs. Wynns.

 

However, the one thing I keep thinking about is that no other organization makes this big a deal over catching.  I think the Orioles overemphasize certain things like throwing because they are overly reliant on the catcher to make the pitchers better.

 

If Sisco were in any other organization like the Yankees or Red Sox, he'd be starting because of what his bat brought to the lineup for his position and he wouldn't have to worry as much about the defensive part, so he'd have a better chance to reach his offensive potential.

Yeah, I don't have an issue with Treas opinion here. Certainly no reason to call him a liar. It's the same exact opinion Keith Law has given. People really gonna argue that Buck Showalter doesn't overvalue defense (or his perception of defense), especially at catcher? Buck doesn't have the influence to press that issue? Hopefully it's primarily a service time issue that Buck and the organization agree about. I won't hold my breath about it though. 

[SportsGuy]

Yeah, I don't have an issue with Treas opinion here. Certainly no reason to call him a liar. It's the same exact opinion Keith Law has given. People really gonna argue that Buck Showalter doesn't overvalue defense (or his perception of defense), especially at catcher? Buck doesn't have the influence to press that issue? Hopefully it's primarily a service time issue that Buck and the organization agree about. I won't hold my breath about it though.

No, his thoughts are poor because everyone shares the same issues about Sisco.

Buck isn’t making this up.

Now, should they be as obsessed about it? No, I personally don’t think so. Teams don’t steal bases anymore, so I care less about that.

However, almost every back ups c is a defense first guy.

The Orioles (and most teams) aren’t going to stick a rookie in there, who has issues back there, over a guy like Joseph, whom the staff loves.

Sisco will be the starter one day but he’s not there yet. If that’s the case, it’s much smarter to have him playing “every day” in AAA, continuing to work on things than it is to have him up here playing 1-2 times a week.

[CA-ORIOLE]

No, his thoughts are poor because everyone shares the same issues about Sisco.

Buck isn’t making this up.

Now, should they be as obsessed about it? No, I personally don’t think so. Teams don’t steal bases anymore, so I care less about that.

However, almost every back ups c is a defense first guy.

The Orioles (and most teams) aren’t going to stick a rookie in there, who has issues back there, over a guy like Joseph, whom the staff loves.

Sisco will be the starter one day but he’s not there yet. If that’s the case, it’s much smarter to have him playing “every day” in AAA, continuing to work on things than it is to have him up here playing 1-2 times a week.

Well, Keith Law shares Trea's opinion, almost exactly, even Bucks influence on it. I think it's a stretch to say that everyone in the organization shares Buck's opinion. Everyone may agree that Sisco is a subpar defensive catcher (and may always  be). Doesn't mean he shouldn't be starting based on the overall considerations and analytics. I'm ok waiting a couple months (good with the service time issue etc), but I don't see any reason to disparage Trea for THIS particular post/opinion. He's probably right about other organizations would be starting Sisco already. 

[SportsGuy]

What I meant is that everyone acknowledges that Sisco has defensive issues.

He would start with some organizations..other organizations may have moved him from C. He has made a lot of progress here and the Orioles have developed catching defense well over the recent years.

Everyone has their way of doing things.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Sisco can hit. Seems like most all agree on that. 

Sisco has some weakness at catching. Seems like most everybody agrees with that. 

 

But here's where I see the root issue. Sisco's bat is valuable because he can catch. Moving him to another position diminishes that value IMO. He has a solid average and OBP. But he doesn't have a power bat and he isn't a speed threat.

 

So at the end of the day, no matter where he ends up, he's a solid hitter but he's way more valuable in the lineup as a catcher than say DH.