264 replies to this topic

[JonBernhardt]

http://baltimorespor...un-soo-kim-yet/

 

Probably not something any veteran of watching more than two or three Spring Trainings needs to be reminded of, but Kim's game not being good enough for MLB would leave the Orioles short in an area that's already weak organizationally -- given the uncertainty at COF, you'd think Baltimore would have to bring in at least one fringe veteran, and soon.

[bnickle]

It's ridiculous. They were going to sign Fowler because they knew they needed OF help and here we are two weeks later, Kim looking all the world like he's not ready, Jackson gone, and we've done nothing. This is the infuriating thing about the Os. They'really just gonna sign Mike Carp and try to pull some magic rabbit our of the hat now between a bunch of AAA players.

[bnickle]

And the O's don't have to give Kim shit. First month and a half my ass. Accept the minor league assignment or give us our money back and go back to Korea. He didn't pass the look test and he's not passing the performance test either. Offensively or defensively.

[Mackus]

Ocular patdown would've saved us $7M. Next time they should send a photo to BNick before making any moves.

[BSLChrisStoner]

And the O's don't have to give Kim shit. First month and a half my ass. Accept the minor league assignment or give us our money back and go back to Korea. He didn't pass the look test and he's not passing the performance test either. Offensively or defensively.

 

Look test?  He's had 18 ab's in Spring Training.. and x amount of innings in the field.

Any evaluation of 'performance' in that time is unfair.

 

He had 4,000+ career ab's in the KBO... career slash line .318 / .406 / .488.

Last year, he was .326 / .438 / .541.

 

I have no idea what he will provide this year. My guess is somewhere around a .750 OPS. If he does that, and he's not a defensive liability; than he will have been a good sign.  Anywhere near league average production is going to provide value.

 

If he can't hack it... yep, that's going to have the O's hurting, especially as RF is currently Reimold / D. Alvarez / Rickard.

 

I think you have to give him regular ab's... and see what you have. I don't know for how long.. I'm not sure 6 weeks is going to be long enough. My real hope is that he doesn't get buried early, but what I really want to see is how he responds, after the league gets their first look at him. Lots of adjustments for him. Cultural. Going from basically AA caliber play to the bigs... the bullpen specialists, etc.

This offensive stretch to begin spring training really means nothing to me right now...  I am fairly concerned about his defense though. We knew he didn't have a good arm, and that was going to limit him to LF only.  But considering he was a 3 time Gold Glover in the KBO, hearing that he looks lost out there is disturbing.

Anyone can have a bad game (vs. the Twins the other day) but apparently there have been regular questions with how he's looked defensively so far. The bat figures to play as at-least average ish... but the glove doesn't figure to get 'good'.  It does have to get to non-liability though.

[Mackus]

I don't think any of us should give a shit about the 0-18. If it was Wieters or Jones or Schoop scuffling, it wouldn't matter at all. It's not like a similarly (but opposite) extreme start from Flaherty has changed any opinions about him.

I do think enough time has passed for the team to begin making serious judgements. If the at bats are bad in addition to being unfruitful, and if he looks bad in workouts and especially in the field, then it's absolutely justified for the team to start working up backup plans or to start accelerating the "what if" scenarios for if Kim wasn't a viable option.

For baseball people who've seen him every day in Florida, it's not too early to make some initial judgements. Not final decisions, but initial observations.

[bnickle]

Look test? He's had 18 ab's in Spring Training.. and x amount of innings in the field.

Any evaluation of 'performance' in that time is unfair.

He had 4,000+ career ab's in the KBO... career slash line .318 / .406 / .488.
Last year, he was .326 / .438 / .541.

I have no idea what he will provide this year. My guess is somewhere around a .750 OPS. If he does that, and he's not a defensive liability; than he will have been a good sign. Anywhere near league average production is going to provide value.

If he can't hack it... yep, that's going to have the O's hurting, especially as RF is currently Reimold / D. Alvarez / Rickard.

I think you have to give him regular ab's... and see what you have. I don't know for how long.. I'm not sure 6 weeks is going to be long enough. My real hope is that he doesn't get buried early, but what I really want to see is how he responds, after the league gets their first look at him. Lots of adjustments for him. Cultural. Going from basically AA caliber play to the bigs... the bullpen specialists, etc.

This offensive stretch to begin spring training really means nothing to me right now... I am fairly concerned about his defense though. We knew he didn't have a good arm, and that was going to limit him to LF only. But considering he was a 3 time Gold Glover in the KBO, hearing that he looks lost out there is disturbing.

Anyone can have a bad game (vs. the Twins the other day) but apparently there have been regular questions with how he's looked defensively so far. The bat figures to play as at-least average ish... but the glove doesn't figure to get 'good'. It does have to get to non-liability though.

Ugh. The bat figures to be nothing. We have no clue whatsoever. 0-18. Hasn't drawn a walk either, something he was supposed to be good at doing. Shocked if he puts up .750 OPS. He's likely no better than Urrutia.

[bnickle]

Buck already throwing around the "if we bring him North" phrase is not good for him.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Buck already throwing around the "if we bring him North" phrase is not good for him.

I saw that. Like we have an option not to bring him north. I'm not in panic mode but he looks like a pretty big project right now.

[McNulty]

Ocular patdown would've saved us $7M. Next time they should send a photo to BNick before making any moves.

I thought you cleared him?

[Icterus galbula]

Branden, when you say "look test'," like you did in the photoshop thread, is it literally that you saw that goofy photo of him and judged his ability?

[Icterus galbula]

I don't know if he'll be useful for the record. I was cautiously optimistic but ready to be let down. Foreign leagues can be hard to translate.

[Mackus]

Branden, when you say "look test'," like you did in the photoshop thread, is it literally that you saw that goofy photo of him and judged his ability?

Is Hyun-soo Korean for Hayden?

[Icterus galbula]

Is Hyun-soo Korean for Hayden?

Of course you know the Korean proper nomenclature.

[bnickle]

I don't know if he'll be useful for the record. I was cautiously optimistic but ready to be let down. Foreign leagues can be hard to translate.

Honesty, this is where I am. I hope he can be a decent MLer, but no expectations at all. I sort of learned my lesson about putting too much into AAish level results. Why should I expect more from Kim than what Urrutia gave us.


And look test doesnt mean anything. I will say I wasn't impressed with some of the fielding videos I've seen of him. Granted they are short clips and meant to even be a highlight film but I feel like you can turn routinish plays into highlight catches. Again, no expectations all the way around, but if I am going to make a snap judgment at this point it's going to be that he's going to be a poor defender

[BSLChrisStoner]

Honesty, this is where I am. I hope he can be a decent MLer, but no expectations at all. I sort of learned my lesson about putting too much into AAish level results. Why should I expect more from Kim than what Urrutia gave us.

 

KBO a slightly higher level of play vs. Cuba... (Cuba more 'stars', but also more guys at a very low talent level...)

Urrutia pretty much always looked at as having the upside of being a platoon DH.
Investment into Kim gives indication the O's believe he has the upside of being an everyday player.

Will see what happens... obviously the production he provides or doesn't is a huge wildcard for this team.

[bnickle]

Or our scouts don't have a clue. Honestly, the biggest problem I have is this notion that we have to give him a month in a half or two. If he isn't good enough, he isn't good enough.

[Mackus]

I don't know if he'll be useful for the record. I was cautiously optimistic but ready to be let down. Foreign leagues can be hard to translate.

Why should I expect more from Kim than what Urrutia gave us.

Well, Kim got 2/$7M whereas Urrutia got a $700k bonus for all of his service time (plus whatever salaries he gets each year).

Agree with the major point, though. I forget exactly, but I think I said that a good result for Kim would be a 725 or so OPS, something borderline average. If he's a league average bat, we win. Odds certainly should be against that, IMO.

[RShack]

Or our scouts don't have a clue. Honestly, the biggest problem I have is this notion that we have to give him a month in a half or two. If he isn't good enough, he isn't good enough.

 

You don't have to give him a month or two.  You don't have to give him anything.  You can decide right now if you think that's a smart thing to do. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

You don't have to give him a month or two.  You don't have to give him anything.  You can decide right now if you think that's a smart thing to do. 

Spot on. One of the things that I think people overlook is one of sunk costs. Playing a guy who is clearly not cutting it is a losing proposition.

1. He is already getting paid whether he sits on the bench, plays, or gets outright released.

2. Yes if you let them go and add another player then you have increased payroll.

But

3. If you field a better team by releasing a player and adding someone else then the overall bottom line may still be higher. If continuing to play a dog keeps you out of contention then how much money are you losing in attendance? Whereas the additional payroll may well be offset by increased interest in a pennant chase.