185 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

I'm not drawing a hard line at all. You are actually doing that by basically saying that anyone that has been honored should continue to be so because it's debatable.


I'm willing to consider people on a case by case basis, but a monument or stadium name should be a really high bar to reach.

 
Higher bars than stadiums have been cleared. Ohio's state capital is named after Columbus. Do we begrudgingly live with that because it is simpler to change a stadium name than a city name?

So because one thing is named after an asshole, we can't change the names of other things named after assholes?

DJ didn't tell me why the DC football team name issue is different than this, but your defense can certainly be used to defend them and others with similar names.

[RShack]

I'll break my rule and interact with you since I'm fired up despite Pedro's objections.

So I'm not arguing against what you're saying. I'm not saying it's paramount, but if I were dictator of America for a day, I would change some of this stuff. Ok, let's make it a longer period of time, since again, you're right, thus I'd tackle plenty of other issues first.

And I'm trying to change the way history is taught on my very small level.

Just because there are worse things or bigger fish to fry doesn't mean we can't mention other negatives.

 

Oh, I think mentioning negatives is a fine thing... and we should be way better about just admitting that they're real... we used to do a lot more of it... but recently there's been a new wave of "USA! USA!" that insists everything that wasn't perfect is either already fixed or not fixable...

 

But even if we were great at it, there's not many statues I'd tear down...  mainly just leading KKK guys... but not guys who were notable for other things and who also attended the occasional KKK meeting... it's a question of balance...

[BSLMikeLowe]

So because one thing is named after an asshole, we can't change the names of other things named after assholes?

DJ didn't tell me why the DC football team name issue is different than this, but your defense can certainly be used to defend them and others with similar names.

 

So where do you draw the line? Edifices? Cities? Somewhere in between? What level of bad did a person have to be for their name to be removed? Is there a scale that measures it?

 

I'll let DJ speak for himself, but the difference between what we are discussing here vs the Redskins is obvious. The Redskins are a privately owned football franchise. UM is a public institution. Many of the monuments that have been built sit on public land (though many no doubt were built through private donations, but some public money too).

[Pedro Cerrano]

Mother Teresa Field at Jesus Christ Stadium.

[mweb08]

I'm not drawing a hard line at all. 

 
You absolutely are. You're making claims about "good people"--that's as hard a line as there is, and as fictional.
 
There are no good people and bad people. There are people. You yourself were able to name good things that resulted from the existence of the worst person who ever lived.
 
The line you are drawing is the line you want, not the line society should have.

No. You're making the hard line here that nothing can be changed. I'm leaving the grey area in play here by allowing analysis to occur.

You're putting a ridiculous meaning on good and bad people, and a very black and white one. Some people, when looked at in total, have been better than others. Nowhere did I suggest that someone needs to be flawless to have a monument or whatever. I'd just prefer that they weren't an extreme racist or that they didn't lead atrocities against people. Crazy, right?

[RShack]

You absolutely are. You're making claims about "good people"--that's as hard a line as there is, and as fictional.

 

There are no good people and bad people. There are people. You yourself were able to name good things that resulted from the existence of the worst person who ever lived.

 

The line you are drawing is the line you want, not the line society should have.

 

Well, in general, using "good people" is a fine ... or not... depends on the criteria... if you include people who did notable good things but also had sins, that's fine... but it gets very tricky if you have a bunch of litmus-test disqualifiers...

[bnickle]

Mother Teresa Field at Jesus Christ Stadium.

Yeah, Weber aint going for that one either. 

[BSLMikeLowe]

Mother Teresa Field at Jesus Christ Stadium.

 

Mother Teresa farted once....no dice.

[mweb08]

So because one thing is named after an asshole, we can't change the names of other things named after assholes?


DJ didn't tell me why the DC football team name issue is different than this, but your defense can certainly be used to defend them and others with similar names.

So where do you draw the line? Edifices? Cities? Somewhere in between? What level of bad did a person have to be for their name to be removed? Is there a scale that measures it?

I'll let DJ speak for himself, but the difference between what we are discussing here vs the Redskins is obvious. The Redskins are a privately owned football franchise. UM is a public institution. Many of the monuments that have been built sit on public land (though many no doubt were built through private donations, but some public money too).

So it makes it better that it's on public land?

As far as where to draw the line, well I'm not exactly sure, and that's a fair question, but it shouldn't prevent progress. We can do one good thing without simultaneously fixing all other similar issues.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Yeah, Weber aint going for that one either.

John Hollinger Field?

[mweb08]

Mother Teresa Field at Jesus Christ Stadium.

 
Mother Teresa farted once....no dice.

I heard she started a genocide....of a rare species of mosquitos.

[BSLMikeLowe]

So it makes it better that it's on public land?

As far as where is draw the line, well I'm not exactly sure, and that's a fair question, but it shouldn't prevent progress. We can do one good thing without simultaneously fixing all other similar issues.

 

I didn't say it was better. I'm just pointing out the difference between Byrd Stadium and the Redskins. That it is on a public university makes it all the more appropriate to have the discussion....I'm just personally not in favor of starting down this path.

[RShack]

Howsabout Jimi Hendrix Field?   Anybody got any problems with that?

[mweb08]

Yeah, Weber aint going for that one either.

John Hollinger Field?

Mike MVP Trout Field

King Lebron Palace

Semanticz Haven

[mweb08]

So it makes it better that it's on public land?


As far as where is draw the line, well I'm not exactly sure, and that's a fair question, but it shouldn't prevent progress. We can do one good thing without simultaneously fixing all other similar issues.

 
I didn't say it was better. I'm just pointing out the difference between Byrd Stadium and the Redskins. That it is on a public university makes it all the more appropriate to have the discussion....I'm just personally not in favor of starting down this path.

Ok. If anything it makes it worse imo.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Howsabout Jimi Hendrix Field?   Anybody got any problems with that?

 

A lot of African Americans misunderstood him and didn't like him. He once got booed off the stage at a performance in Harlem.

[bnickle]

John Hollinger Field?

Aha!!!. I just figured it out. All  this Columbus hate is a plot to rename it Lebron, Ohio. Weber, you son of a bitch.

[mweb08]

I'm being asked a lot of questions, but what is the defense for these types of things besides "this country is too PC," "it's already there," "they weren't complete pricks," and that it will somehow lead to people analyzing the whole picture when the other side is barely presented, if at all?

[RShack]

A lot of African Americans misunderstood him and didn't like him. He once got booed off the stage at a performance in Harlem.

 

Psychedelic Oreo...

[mweb08]

John Hollinger Field?

Aha!!!. I just figured it out. All  this Columbus hate is a plot to rename it Lebron, Ohio. Weber, you son of a bitch.

I can't wait to go back to Lebron Zoo. It's arguably in the top 5 of the country.

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