468 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think the biggest problem with the OH is its popularity and general "editorial tone" if you want to call it that. That's not a shot at Weams--I think he's fantastic. Rather, I've become frustrated with the large number of "deadwood" posters. Not saying I'm some wonderful godsend of a presence surrounded by plebeians over there, but I've found there's been in influx of posters that bring nothing to the table. I'm sure they're all nice people--and in different circumstances, perhaps I'd want to engage them in conversation--but I post there because I want to talk (semi)-intelligently about baseball. That really hasn't been happening as of late. The number of truly high quality threads over there has evaporated over the past 18 months. I can't remember the last 10+ page "good thread" i.e. a thread made up of analysis and conversation rather than rage over a controversy of sorts; the last I can remember was the "Fixing Wieters" thread from early last season.

I mentioned this to Allstar in a PM once, but I always wish there was an Orioles centric site similar to SOSH. Obviously, they have their flaws over there (the game threads are horrendous,) but the conversation and analysis on their main board is top notch. There are dozens of fantastic posters at OH, but they got lost in the sea of the plurality. I know that sounds unfortunately Randian, but I wish it were more exclusive over there--even if said exclusivity precluded my involvement in conversation.

Obviously this popularity is great for Tony and I applaud him for accomplishing what he's done. I've never had any run ins with him, and while the whole Stoner-SG kerfuffle rubbed me the wrong way, I really have no personal issues with him. I've learned a ton about baseball from my time there and in many ways I owe that to his hard work. My time at OH has been a net-positive for sure.

All that being said, it seems like this particular forum may be a better fit for what I want from a baseball website.

(As an aside, I remember my first post on OH was right after the Tejada trade. I called the return "trash" and I'm pretty sure I got called an idiot by SG and was negrepped. That "welcome to the big leagues moment" lead me to buying The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract. I've come so far since I was 17.)

This is a very tactful, and spot on summary of things. Nice post.

[McNulty]

A friend of mine made this observation a few months ago (he lurks over there), but there's an arc to every message board. A group of hardcore people get together about X, the quality of discussion is high for a few years, it gains popularity and starts to attract morons, the quality crashes and slowly erodes the initial base, then finally it becomes a spot for trolls and people devoid of good discussion.

I'm sure other boards you've been a part of have seen this cycle (he was relating it to a comics board, I think). I think we all know what point the OH is at.

I'll go even further and say that I emailed Weams during the dustup last month (or whenever) telling him that I was incredibly disappointed in the way Tony was handling the situation, and that I was seriously considering leaving. There have been more than a few times where I felt like at any second Tony might ban me for disagreeing with him; particularily when I told him that banning LJ and Shack was not only without reason (for the year ban), but that they were among the top contributors to the site. He went off the deep end about it, and while I was never given neg rep, he essentially told me to knock it off or take a hike. Never forgot that, and I had some very respected members hit me up through various mediums telling me that the way he responded was why they weren't re-upping or seriously diminishing involvement.

I don't want to talk bad about the place, because I have spent so much time over there, and enjoyed it. But Tony needs to seriously reflect as to how he treats people; especially the people who he KNOWS aren't trolls. I imagine he'll read this in the next day or two and I'll be outcast. Which is basically my point - if he wasn't like he is, this might prove as constructive criticism. But it won't.

Banning Shack for saying what he said AFTER he got booted for a year is simply too far. The guy should be allowed to vent a touch, but Tony tends to shut people down so he can get the last word.

[SportsGuy]

RTA...I wasn't a big fan of the Miggy return, so I do not think that was me who called you out. Lol

[SportsGuy]

Tony has done a good job turning that site into a very popular, large online community. He deserves credit for that. But while he acknowledges that hangouters are the reason the site exists, I feel he also forgets that at times too.

What Tony wants are a bunch of guys like Weams and Frobby. Really nice guys that help drive conversation who think Tony does no wrong and won't argue with him. Nothing wrong with that but on a site with so many people, it's just not going to happen that way.

Tony isn't going to ban posters for not bringing good convo to the board and he shouldn't but the site will continue a down trend if he continues to drive good posters away.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'm sure some want me to leave this open, but I'm going to lock it up.

I'm not interested in looking back, and I don't want to continue to discuss Tony and OH. It is a quality board, filled with quality posters (many of whom are members of this board). You enjoy posting there, continue to do so.
You don't enjoy posting there, move on.

I appreciate the posters who are here, and I'm looking forward to making this board as good as it can be.

If anyone has any questions, you can send me a PM.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'm sure some want me to leave this open, but I'm going to lock it up.

I'm not interested in looking back, and I don't want to continue to discuss Tony and OH. It is a quality board, filled with quality posters (many of whom are members of this board). You enjoy posting there, continue to do so. You don't enjoy posting there, move on.

I appreciate the posters who are here, and I'm looking forward to making this board as good as it can be.

If anyone has any questions, you can send me a PM.

I've said before this board belongs to the posters. I've received a number of requests to re-open this thread. So, I am going to do that.

[JeremyStrain]

I'm sure some want me to leave this open, but I'm going to lock it up.

I'm not interested in looking back, and I don't want to continue to discuss Tony and OH. It is a quality board, filled with quality posters (many of whom are members of this board). You enjoy posting there, continue to do so. You don't enjoy posting there, move on.

I appreciate the posters who are here, and I'm looking forward to making this board as good as it can be.

If anyone has any questions, you can send me a PM.

I've said before this board belongs to the posters. I've received a number of requests to re-open this thread. So, I am going to do that.

This is why we love you Chris.

[mweb08]

I've said before this board belongs to the posters. I've received a number of requests to re-open this thread. So, I am going to do that.

This is why we love you Chris.

Seconded.

You wouldn't want me to start a new thread called something like Closing a Thread Without Giving Me a Chance to Respond.

[Chris B]

This is why we love you Chris.

Seconded.

You wouldn't want me to start a new thread called something like Closing a Thread Without Giving Me a Chance to Respond.

Where have I heard that one before...

[JeremyStrain]

This is why we love you Chris.

Seconded.

You wouldn't want me to start a new thread called something like Closing a Thread Without Giving Me a Chance to Respond.

I dunno, I thought that was one of the all time best threads at the ol' foxhole. Felt nice to finally just say what we were thinking instead of tip-toeing.

[mweb08]

Seconded.

You wouldn't want me to start a new thread called something like Closing a Thread Without Giving Me a Chance to Respond.

I dunno, I thought that was one of the all time best threads at the ol' foxhole. Felt nice to finally just say what we were thinking instead of tip-toeing.

Thanks.

Well I'm glad I started it for myself for one and for people like you who wanted to speak your mind more. It and the thread that inspired it were certainly interesting to many, including many I'm sure that didn't participate.

[bnickle]

I think the biggest problem with the OH is its popularity and general "editorial tone" if you want to call it that. That's not a shot at Weams--I think he's fantastic. Rather, I've become frustrated with the large number of "deadwood" posters. Not saying I'm some wonderful godsend of a presence surrounded by plebeians over there, but I've found there's been in influx of posters that bring nothing to the table. I'm sure they're all nice people--and in different circumstances, perhaps I'd want to engage them in conversation--but I post there because I want to talk (semi)-intelligently about baseball. That really hasn't been happening as of late. The number of truly high quality threads over there has evaporated over the past 18 months. I can't remember the last 10+ page "good thread" i.e. a thread made up of analysis and conversation rather than rage over a controversy of sorts; the last I can remember was the "Fixing Wieters" thread from early last season.

I mentioned this to Allstar in a PM once, but I always wish there was an Orioles centric site similar to SOSH. Obviously, they have their flaws over there (the game threads are horrendous,) but the conversation and analysis on their main board is top notch. There are dozens of fantastic posters at OH, but they got lost in the sea of the plurality. I know that sounds unfortunately Randian, but I wish it were more exclusive over there--even if said exclusivity precluded my involvement in conversation.

Obviously this popularity is great for Tony and I applaud him for accomplishing what he's done. I've never had any run ins with him, and while the whole Stoner-SG kerfuffle rubbed me the wrong way, I really have no personal issues with him. I've learned a ton about baseball from my time there and in many ways I owe that to his hard work. My time at OH has been a net-positive for sure.

All that being said, it seems like this particular forum may be a better fit for what I want from a baseball website.

(As an aside, I remember my first post on OH was right after the Tejada trade. I called the return "trash" and I'm pretty sure I got called an idiot by SG and was negrepped. That "welcome to the big leagues moment" lead me to buying The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract. I've come so far since I was 17.)

The question is has anyone not been called an idiot at one point or another by SG??

[SBTarheel]

I just want to add that I think "McNulty" absolutely nailed it by saying that some might accept some criticism and use it to improve themselves, but he takes the opposite approach and gets so defensive that anyone challenging him instantly becomes the enemy.

I disagreed with something he wrote one time, years ago, he neg repped me, and threatened to "give me a little break" over something so absurd, that I just avoided any thread he was in for years. Just a bully mentality, and it's not necessary at all..The site is great, and the posters are what makes it that way. It's a shame that so many have left.

[JeremyStrain]

I dunno, I thought that was one of the all time best threads at the ol' foxhole. Felt nice to finally just say what we were thinking instead of tip-toeing.

Thanks.

Well I'm glad I started it for myself for one and for people like you who wanted to speak your mind more. It and the thread that inspired it were certainly interesting to many, including many I'm sure that didn't participate.

Yeah that thread before I thought it was just going to be me going out in a blaze of glory, and then you jumped in, BTerp jumped in and I was like...hmmm I'm not the only one thinking this.

[JeremyStrain]

I just want to add that I think "McNulty" absolutely nailed it by saying that some might accept some criticism and use it to improve themselves, but he takes the opposite approach and gets so defensive that anyone challenging him instantly becomes the enemy.

I disagreed with something he wrote one time, years ago, he neg repped me, and threatened to "give me a little break" over something so absurd, that I just avoided any thread he was in for years. Just a bully mentality, and it's not necessary at all..The site is great, and the posters are what makes it that way. It's a shame that so many have left.

It's been downhill hard since 2008.

[mweb08]

Thanks.

Well I'm glad I started it for myself for one and for people like you who wanted to speak your mind more. It and the thread that inspired it were certainly interesting to many, including many I'm sure that didn't participate.

Yeah that thread before I thought it was just going to be me going out in a blaze of glory, and then you jumped in, BTerp jumped in and I was like...hmmm I'm not the only one thinking this.

Yeah, I knew I wasn't alone in my thinking, but I wasn't sure of the scope of it. I'm still not, but it's clear that at least a fair amount of people thought similarly to us.

[DJ MC]

Thanks.

Well I'm glad I started it for myself for one and for people like you who wanted to speak your mind more. It and the thread that inspired it were certainly interesting to many, including many I'm sure that didn't participate.

Yeah that thread before I thought it was just going to be me going out in a blaze of glory, and then you jumped in, BTerp jumped in and I was like...hmmm I'm not the only one thinking this.

Trust me, I've said a lot of stuff to Tony in PMs for years. Mostly I tried to stay calm and rational--though I'm not going to act like I was an innocent victim every time he went off on me--and sometimes we were able to work things out. The problem is, we all get reputations over time. Usually they are deserved, but people also change and mature over that time. I don't have a particularly great memory for certain things, but one advantage to that is it becomes very difficult to hold a grudge. Tony never let go, no matter what. Tenacity and memory are good qualities with some important downsides.

If I were to summarize where I think he goes wrong, it would be very simple. He doesn't see the line where being an administrator ends and being a debater begins. He gets into strong debates and acts aggressively, but when someone responds in kind, he flips the switch back to administrator and doles out punishment. There's a reason judges must be impartial, yet he would never recluse himself and let someone else handle those situations.

Chris, just to respond to your posts...I get where you are coming from, and I certainly don't want this board to become a place where OriolesHangout (and Tony Pente specifically) is trashed at every turn. That wouldn't be fair to anyone, from you and all of the great people here to the great people over there. I do think, though, you should leave a thread open where such matters can be discussed. It allows for a place for people to vent (and I think we all have a sneaking suspicion that those numbers will only rise), while keeping the rest of the place clear for the discussion we all want to have. It will make the board better overall, in my opinion.

[JeremyStrain]

Yeah I said the same thing this morning. It's kinda therapeutic to have some place you can vent after spending so much time over there and not being able to.

[SportsGuy]

I also agree that these threads have value.

While I agree that we shouldn't have a bsl vs oh mentality and just slm Tony, I do think it's important for people to speak their minds and the bottom line is every time a thread like this has existed, it brings in a few more HOers, which is good for the site.

And you know what, people should know both sides of the story. Tony spoke his mind and did so without anyone being able to counter his points. And then, his minions did the same thing. They had one side of the story, kissed Tonys ass and bashed Chris without knowing the full truth.

[You Play to Win the Game]

And you know what, people should know both sides of the story. Tony spoke his mind and did so without anyone being able to counter his points. And then, his minions did the same thing. They had one side of the story, kissed Tonys ass and bashed Chris without knowing the full truth.

Yeah, that's what LedZepp did. I jumped in and basically called him a brown noser tool, and that's when I received the wrath. I've stayed out of this whole thing for the most part, but when they started teeing off on Chris, I'm glad I was one of the folks (like the others in this thread) who stuck up for him. That was just nonsense.