Balt Baseball: Schmuck: Yes, pitching injuries are on the rise and there’s not much anybody can do about it

https://www.baltimor...ch-anybody-can/

Kinda odd they haven't operated on Wells yet.

He was hurt before Means and Means has already had his procedure.

Maybe the delay to see if he could come back without surgery pushed things back.

I hate that the Players Association blames the pitch clock, but if they can change my mind through research, fine. 

My take.... injuries are going to happen.... if there is any rise, maybe it's because you have pitchers maxing out on velocity and spin rate on every pitch.

I think you have to consider the pitch clock.

Putting a clock on pitchers was/is a radical departure from their in game routine.

Pitchers have had a max effort approach for about ten years now. Pitchers have also been getting specific training to throw harder with better spin rates at the same time. There has been a significant spike in catastrophic arm injuries since the pitch clock was instituted. The Players Association wouldn't be doing their job if they ignored the spike.

While I am generally in favor of the clock, I think adding five seconds to the clock would be a good move. Meanwhile, do the research.

AI: 

 

 

CBS Sports: Why are MLB pitching injuries on the rise? Four possible ...

 

NY Times: MLB insiders “pretty worried” by rise in arm injuries to top 

I think you have to consider the pitch clock.

Putting a clock on pitchers was/is a radical departure from their in game routine.

Pitchers have had a max effort approach for about ten years now. Pitchers have also been getting specific training to throw harder with better spin rates at the same time. There has been a significant spike in catastrophic arm injuries since the pitch clock was instituted. The Players Association wouldn't be doing their job if they ignored the spike.

While I am generally in favor of the clock, I think adding five seconds to the clock would be a good move. Meanwhile, do the research.

There have been plenty of pitchers that worked quickly before the pitch clock and didn’t have injury problems. I’m not buying it. Mark Buehrle’s arm should have fallen off after 3 seasons.

The game has evolved so much in 20+ years.

In 2002, 42 pitchers threw at least 200 innings. That year, 21 pitchers threw at least 216 innings.

In 2023, 5 pitchers threw 200 innings or more. The league leader had 216.

In 2022, 8 pitchers threw 200 innings or more. The league leader that year had 228. He's currently recovering from TJS.

There have been plenty of pitchers that worked quickly before the pitch clock and didn’t have injury problems. I’m not buying it. Mark Buehrle’s arm should have fallen off after 3 seasons.

Not everyone is the same.

Buehrle was a notoriously fast worker and he obviously was conditioned that way

You can dismiss it out of hand if You'd like, however, there may something to the pitch clock and the spike in injuries. If nothing else, research needs to done.

There have been plenty of pitchers that worked quickly before the pitch clock and didn’t have injury problems. I’m not buying it. Mark Buehrle’s arm should have fallen off after 3 seasons.

I agree 100%.  It's a weak excuse.  Just like it's against natural anatomy to be 340 lbs. and playing offense or defensive line in the NFL, it's also not normal to be throwing a baseball as hard as these guys do without experiencing the consequences.  Does anyone really believe that a knuckleballer on a pitch clock would blow his shoulder or elbow out?  Or even someone throwing 85-90 MPH?  You can't have your cake and eat it to.  If you're going to throw 100 pitches at 95-100 MPH, you might as well go ahead and make your reservation with the nearest Tommy John assembly line.  The best you can hope for is a few good years completely healthy. 

I don't think this is too hard to figure out. The human body was not designed to throw 97 to 100 mph routinely. Obviously not every guy getting the surgery is a flamethrower, and obviously there are some guys who throw really hard who haven't had the surgery yet, but when you look at who has gone down with elbow issues over the last 10 years, the vast majority are fireballers. I expect Grayson to need TJ sometime in the next two years, and same with Skenes and whoever else. It's just part of the game.

There have been plenty of pitchers that worked quickly before the pitch clock and didn’t have injury problems. I’m not buying it. Mark Buehrle’s arm should have fallen off after 3 seasons.

Buehrle also didn't throw 97+.

I don't think this is too hard to figure out. The human body was not designed to throw 97 to 100 mph routinely. Obviously not every guy getting the surgery is a flamethrower, and obviously there are some guys who throw really hard who haven't had the surgery yet, but when you look at who has gone down with elbow issues over the last 10 years, the vast majority are fireballers. I expect Grayson to need TJ sometime in the next two years, and same with Skenes and whoever else. It's just part of the game.

I don't think the human body is made to throw 80+ MPH routinely overhand, much less anything 90+. My body wasn't made to throw much harder than 70 in peak performance stage.

I don't think the human body is made to throw 80+ MPH routinely overhand, much less anything 90+. My body wasn't made to throw much harder than 70 in peak performance stage.

Perhaps not. But I also imagine the strain put on a well conditioned arm is not linear with velo. For example - a peak athletic pitcher probably can use minimal effort and reach 85ish MPH. Maybe throwing at 70% effort gets them to 93-94. Max effort up to 97+. When you throw max effort on every pitch, because even your breaking stuff needs to be fast, it's only a matter of time. Grayson will need it. Garrett Crochet will too. Paul Skenes will too. Pitchers who do that will have the same result.

Yup. Just a part of the game. Not too many guys built like Ryan, Clemens, Johnson, Schilling who can throw hard and rack up innings year after year. Obviously we know what Clemens was up to, but makes you wonder what maybe the other guys were doing for a competitive edge to stay on the mound.

The "cause" is everything. Trying to throw as hard as possible so much. Trying to spin the ball as much as possible while throwing as hard as possible. In parallel, trying to have guys throw less pitches, pitch counts, inning limits, etc.

 

It can be shown with a pretty simple example... random person, spend a lot of time gradually building up arm strength and stamina by throwing... start softer and shorter, and over time gradually ramp up to harder and farther.  Then try to unleash the fastest throw / pitch you can.  You'll PROBABLY feel alright afterwards.  Same random person, don't throw a lot, but every time you throw, try to throw as hard as you can.  There's WAY more chance that you're going to blow out your arm in some fashion real quick.   

 

Now I KNOW the extremities of that example aren't the complete reality of what a pro baseball pitcher does in the course of a year... but the evolution of the position has steered the game much closer to that extreme example than ever before. 

 

Toss in a ball that jumps more than ever, bats that are engineered better (yes, they're still wood but even that process is in constant refinement), and umpires that call smaller zones because every single strike called inches out of the (inaccurate) on-screen zone box gets thousands of social media screen cap shares within minutes declaring the umpire incompetent... and the league has basically helped push the game to where pitchers (and analysts) value the K so much as the fail-safe "can't hit HRs if they don't touch the ball" solution.  A pitcher for decades and decades could get rewarded for "hitting his spot" a few inches off the plate, and that was just an accepted reality.  Now if an ump rewards a pitcher for doing that, the whole country is talking about what a horrible call it was and sharing pics to prove it.

 

MLB could do things like... lower the COR rating of the baseball, raise the seams, raise the mound a couple inches, have umps call the zone higher, widen the plate a couple inches (they did so with the bases!), etc.  The league could do things to keep the game action inside the fences a little more, and reduce the need for pitchers to do more things the human arm really isn't made to do that way.  It wouldn't hurt ratings or attendance AT ALL.  But they're too afraid to do that sort of stuff, largely because of the "chicks dig the long ball" mentality that took off with Bonds and McGwire and company.  It coincided with the boom across baseball (and sports in general) of making ballparks more aesthetic social events with a wider variety of food and drink options.  I think that had a lot more to do with the surge in attendance (and still does) than a league where Dave Kingman and Pete Incaviglia become what kids aspire to be.

 

Seriously, widening the plate alone would help pitchers be more effective in the zone.  As athletes get bigger and stronger, they can cover the outside black better.  Maybe not Jose Altuve.    But guys weren't the size of Aaron Judge before either.  He can crowd the inside, get mad if you throw inside, and cover several inches off the outside black with the full sweet spot of his barrel.  

 

So anyway, in that sense, there are things that CAN be done to change the game a bit.  MLB just won't do them.  And it has to trickle down to all lower levels and H.S. age ball as well.

Still haven't heard the problem we're trying to solve.

Not everyone is the same.

Buehrle was a notoriously fast worker and he obviously was conditioned that way

You can dismiss it out of hand if You'd like, however, there may something to the pitch clock and the spike in injuries. If nothing else, research needs to done.

Data showed no increase in injury rates in 2023, which was the first year of the pitch clock. This claim came mostly from Tony Clarke, the executive director of the MLBPA, who attempted to politicize the injury epidemic among pitchers. Trouble is, he had no empirical evidence to support his assertion.

If you want to keep your arm healthy well into old age, throwing a baseball isn't recommended.

 

There is nothing so fragile in baseball as a pitcher's arm.

Data showed no increase in injury rates in 2023, which was the first year of the pitch clock. This claim came mostly from Tony Clarke, the executive director of the MLBPA, who attempted to politicize the injury epidemic among pitchers. Trouble is, he had no empirical evidence to support his assertion.

I agree that more research has to be done.

I think it takes more than one year to examine the effects of the pitch clock on pitchers.

I also think it's irresponsible to dismiss the probability that the pitch clock may be contributing to arm injuries out of hand

Tony Clark's job is to protect the players that belong to his union. I wouldn't trust Rob Manfred or the hierarchy of MLB baseball either if I was in his position.