ESPN: Players praise 'overdue' Negro Leagues inclusion

https://www.espn.com...ecord-inclusion

Some of my initial thoughts... 

- Racism is always horrible, and obviously racism continues to exist. 
 

- That you had to have segregation in baseball was ridiculous, but was just another example of the times.
 

- The MLB that existed without African-Americans was obviously not as good as it could have been, when you were keeping out a portion of the population.

- By most accounts the Negro Leagues had truly great players, but also players who were not MLB caliber. 

- I've been a baseball fan my whole life. My legitimate knowledge of the Negro Leagues is pretty damn minimal. There is a Negro League museum here in Owings Mills, maybe I should go educate myself sometime. 

- I think it makes sense to publicize what the Negro League players went through, their experiences, to tell their stories...  I think it makes sense to make players who only played in the Negro League (or had the vast majority of their careers in the Negro League) eligible for the HOF. 

- I think incorporating the Negro League stats in the MLB stats is maybe not ideal, but also maybe the right thing to do?  Josh Gibson might be the best player of that era.  It's sad that because of the color of his skin, he was not given the opportunity to show that talent in MLB.  But there was segregation. There were different leagues. I don't know what to think about historical counting stats that were vs. different competition*. 

That said, I think it might be the right thing to do...  because when new fans (or old fans like myself who haven't done the homework) go looking at historical numbers, maybe it will prompt more learning of players they wouldn't have necessarily been familiar with. 

*I've seen lots of posts on social media saying that MLB should be counting NPB's stats now too.

A bit off-topic, but someone tweeted yesterday how ironic it was that Ty Cobb lost his spot as the all-time batting average leader with the integration of the Negro League records. Someone else replied that it had been largely debunked that Cobb was a racist monster, and rather it was a myth made-up in order to sell books, and that he was actually in favor of integrating MLB. I had never heard that, and the person who replied linked this well-researched article from the Detroit Free Press.

Circling back on topic, I think this is not only the right thing to do, but also a good exercise in doing much-needed research, because you never know what you might learn that has either been forgotten or covered up with tropes over the decades.

Since it was only very elite players of those leagues that changed a few leaderboards, I'm all for it. 

My view is basically any pre-1947 stats from MLB or the negro leagues should be viewed totally differently than post-1947 stats and I'm not gonna insist they shouldn't count but I view any post-1947 stats as being much more legitimate and meaningful than anything pre-1947 from any league

If someone invented a sports Time Machine that would allow me to travel back in time to watch any sporting event, one of things on my list would be to go to Birmingham in 1948 to watch a Birmingham Black Barons game at Rickwood Stadium.  I read a book about that franchise a few years ago; they had some great players on those teams, including Willie Mays in 1948.  I believe a MLB game is going to be played on that field this year.  I’ve been to Birmingham a few times, I think I’m going to find that stadium the next time.

My view is basically any pre-1947 stats from MLB or the negro leagues should be viewed totally differently than post-1947 stats and I'm not gonna insist they shouldn't count but I view any post-1947 stats as being much more legitimate and meaningful than anything pre-1947 from any league

Although in the Negro Leagues, 1947 is when the quality of play started to decline.

A bit off-topic, but someone tweeted yesterday how ironic it was that Ty Cobb lost his spot as the all-time batting average leader with the integration of the Negro League records. Someone else replied that it had been largely debunked that Cobb was a racist monster, and rather it was a myth made-up in order to sell books, and that he was actually in favor of integrating MLB. I had never heard that, and the person who replied linked this well-researched article from the Detroit Free Press.

 

Circling back on topic, I think this is not only the right thing to do, but also a good exercise in doing much-needed research, because you never know what you might learn that has either been forgotten or covered up with tropes over the decades.

Cobb hated everybody. I've also read the Al Stump piece on Cobb, which was later demonstrated to be a work of mostly fiction. 

People that knew Cobb said the event that pushed him over the edge was the death of his father in 1905--when Cobb was only 19 years old. And it was at the hands of a member of his own family.

If someone invented a sports Time Machine that would allow me to travel back in time to watch any sporting event, one of things on my list would be to go to Birmingham in 1948 to watch a Birmingham Black Barons game at Rickwood Stadium.  I read a book about that franchise a few years ago; they had some great players on those teams, including Willie Mays in 1948.  I believe a MLB game is going to be played on that field this year.  I’ve been to Birmingham a few times, I think I’m going to find that stadium the next time.

I had a couple of great uncles who talked about going to see the Baltimore Elite Giants at Bugle Field. They liked baseball regardless of who was playing it and where. That's why I have souvenir baseballs from both the old Oriole Park and Shibe Park in Philadelphia.

Cobb hated everybody. I've also read the Al Stump piece on Cobb, which was later demonstrated to be a work of mostly fiction. 

 

People that knew Cobb said the event that pushed him over the edge was the death of his father in 1905--when Cobb was only 19 years old. And it was at the hands of a member of his own family.

Oh yeah, he was no saint. Very short-tempered. But that DFP article was an eye-opening read for someone who prior only knew of Al Stump's version of his off-field life.

Oh yeah, he was no saint. Very short-tempered. But that DFP article was an eye-opening read for someone who prior only knew of Al Stump's version of his off-field life.

I came across an interesting op-ed in The Sun on Tuesday in which a chap named Colin Fleming, who, judging by his bio, I assume is a freelance writer. In the piece, he argues that MLB's granting Negro League stats equal standing with those of the Major Leagues is anything but an act of good faith and doesn't do those former players any favors.

Fleming focuses heavily on Josh Gibson, who went from Negro League great to national monument status seemingly overnight. Because of the change in rankings, Gibson, who posted 808 career hits, which are all that MLB can currently verify, now sits atop the leaderboard for career batting average. That, says Fleming, doesn't improve Gibson's standings among the all-time greats; most likely it will do nothing but set him up for ridicule. 

(Fleming does make one error in his editorial. He cites Gibson's .466 BA in 1945--in just 157 official AB--as the highest all-time now for a single season. I took the liberty of checking the stats and that .466 was actually Gibson's OBP, not his batting average, which was actually .357 for that year. He hit .466 in 1943 in just 302 PA.)

In either case, he argues that no one hits .466, except maybe in little league or high school. That's just professional reality. And by MLB presenting Gibson as such, they're not honoring him at all, but rather cartooning him. And that's just as wrong as excluding Gibson and other Negro League players altogether, be it on Major League playing fields or in the record books.

It's behind a paywall, no doubt, but I think The Sun website does offer a few freebies per month. Here's a link to the article if anyone is interested. Very thoughtful piece, in my opinion.