MLB Dirt: http://mlbdirt.com/2...m-and-the-rays/
Jonathan Mitchell from MLB Dirt takes a look at Tampa's extension of Matt Moore.
Tampa Bay Rays
Started by
BSLChrisStoner
, Dec 13 2011 06:48 PM
689 replies to this topic
#1
BSLChrisStoner
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Don Olsen
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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:08 PM
A number of people think it was a poor move on Moore's part, but he gets a locked in deal to avoid the risk.... I will always tell a pitcher to get maximum years and money because you never know if the worst can happen.
The Rays took a risk, but he has superstar written all over him. If the cards fall correctly, he has a chance to provide more bang for the buck.
This was a win-win, takes away risk on both sides...the boy will eventually earn his huge payday and unless the landscape changes, it will be in a major market team giving him the plus 5-10% mark up on the price of a number 1 starter. It will likely be in another uniform, bet yet likely in the Northeast.
The Rays took a risk, but he has superstar written all over him. If the cards fall correctly, he has a chance to provide more bang for the buck.
This was a win-win, takes away risk on both sides...the boy will eventually earn his huge payday and unless the landscape changes, it will be in a major market team giving him the plus 5-10% mark up on the price of a number 1 starter. It will likely be in another uniform, bet yet likely in the Northeast.
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JonathanMitchell
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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:12 AM
It was definitely a win-win.
Moore gets the biggest contract ever for a player with less than two years and still can hit free agency at 30.
Rays have to make these moves to stay competitive and are only on the hook for $14M guaranteed.
Moore gets the biggest contract ever for a player with less than two years and still can hit free agency at 30.
Rays have to make these moves to stay competitive and are only on the hook for $14M guaranteed.
#5
Adam Wolff
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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:24 AM
Maybe if Moore ends up being an absolute superstar he will regret making the move, but at his age, with his service time, getting this kind of money is a no-brainer. Freak things can happen at any time. He could injure his arm in spring training, never be the same, and end up flaming out without ever really making much money in this game. Obviously, that's an extreme case, but it certainly could happen.
Also a good move for the Rays. Definitely a bit of risk, but it's the kind of saavy move this team makes. Unlike the Orioles, the Rays recognize their limitations and are willing to make a more unconventional decision like this to try to even the playing field.
All in all, I'd say good deal for both sides.
Also a good move for the Rays. Definitely a bit of risk, but it's the kind of saavy move this team makes. Unlike the Orioles, the Rays recognize their limitations and are willing to make a more unconventional decision like this to try to even the playing field.
All in all, I'd say good deal for both sides.
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#6
Oriole85
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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:44 AM
I think this move is more beneficial to the Rays than Moore and it's one that they had to make to control his cost. But it also benefits Moore as Don pointed out, he's set for life and he'll be a FA when he's 30. This sort of deal has worked so far with Longoria and they are obviously hoping it works again.
I disagree with the comparison to the Orioles, the Rays don't have anywhere near the revenue streams of the O's as in MASN, OPACY, and a better baseball market. If Tampa could have decent attendance and more interest in the community, they could improve this through a better media deal. The Orioles have about double the payroll of the Rays after all. As Stuart Sternberg said in the Jonah Keri book of the name, they have to do "everything 2% better." If the Orioles were comparable to the Rays, I think you would've seen talks for an extension with Wieters earlier on and even Britton(and Matusz last year). That's not to say the Orioles are at the level of the Yanks or RedSox, we're slightly below the middle of the pack.
I disagree with the comparison to the Orioles, the Rays don't have anywhere near the revenue streams of the O's as in MASN, OPACY, and a better baseball market. If Tampa could have decent attendance and more interest in the community, they could improve this through a better media deal. The Orioles have about double the payroll of the Rays after all. As Stuart Sternberg said in the Jonah Keri book of the name, they have to do "everything 2% better." If the Orioles were comparable to the Rays, I think you would've seen talks for an extension with Wieters earlier on and even Britton(and Matusz last year). That's not to say the Orioles are at the level of the Yanks or RedSox, we're slightly below the middle of the pack.
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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:15 AM
Price, Shields, Davis, Hellickson, Moore, with Niemann in reserve. What a collection of talent there.
I like Luke Scott for them a lot. Will be interesting to see Jennings over the course of a full season.
I like Luke Scott for them a lot. Will be interesting to see Jennings over the course of a full season.
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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:15 PM
Couldn't agree more, Chris...still a scary group of young talent.
A very interesting team, though. Still a lot of question marks around the lineup to be determined (hole at 1B, when to part ways with Upton and for what kind of return, and who is the "real" Ben Zobrist?) but they have such a great dynamic and style in that their team results always seem to outperform the sum of their parts on paper, with due credit to Maddon as well as a clear and defined organizational philosophy.
If things break for them, there's no reason to believe they can't hang with the Yanks and Red Sox again this year.
A very interesting team, though. Still a lot of question marks around the lineup to be determined (hole at 1B, when to part ways with Upton and for what kind of return, and who is the "real" Ben Zobrist?) but they have such a great dynamic and style in that their team results always seem to outperform the sum of their parts on paper, with due credit to Maddon as well as a clear and defined organizational philosophy.
If things break for them, there's no reason to believe they can't hang with the Yanks and Red Sox again this year.
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:33 PM
It's called being a smart organization.
Tough for a kid to turn down that kind of money. If you were sitting at a roulette table with 250K and someone came over and handed you 14 million, would you put the 14 million on red and go for the 28, or would you take the 14 and run?
He's only making a few hundred grand for the next couple years if he doesn't sign that extension. Anything could happen during that time. Plus, if he does turn into a superstar, he will likely command an extension a year or so before free agency, and if not, he'll make his money by the time he's 30 years old anyway so he'll still get his big deal by then.
Tough for a kid to turn down that kind of money. If you were sitting at a roulette table with 250K and someone came over and handed you 14 million, would you put the 14 million on red and go for the 28, or would you take the 14 and run?
He's only making a few hundred grand for the next couple years if he doesn't sign that extension. Anything could happen during that time. Plus, if he does turn into a superstar, he will likely command an extension a year or so before free agency, and if not, he'll make his money by the time he's 30 years old anyway so he'll still get his big deal by then.
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:37 PM
BTW...This is what happens when you have a club that is proactive as opposed to reactive.
The O's should have done this with Matt Wieters about 18 months ago. Yes, I know his agent is Scott Boras but they should have at least broached the possibility.
Guarantee him more money than he'll ever need in his life, and it would be so tough for him to turn it down.
Now, if he blows up in the next couple years, he'll be as good as gone, or when he hits free agency as a catcher, the O's, if they were to re-sign him, would be playing not only for future performance but for past as well. For a catcher, that is always a scary, risky proposition.
The Rays are paying their guys below-market value for future performance. That's why they are one of the brightest organizations in baseball and the O's are the worst.
The O's should have done this with Matt Wieters about 18 months ago. Yes, I know his agent is Scott Boras but they should have at least broached the possibility.
Guarantee him more money than he'll ever need in his life, and it would be so tough for him to turn it down.
Now, if he blows up in the next couple years, he'll be as good as gone, or when he hits free agency as a catcher, the O's, if they were to re-sign him, would be playing not only for future performance but for past as well. For a catcher, that is always a scary, risky proposition.
The Rays are paying their guys below-market value for future performance. That's why they are one of the brightest organizations in baseball and the O's are the worst.
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Oriole85
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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:04 PM
A number of people think it was a poor move on Moore's part, but he gets a locked in deal to avoid the risk.... I will always tell a pitcher to get maximum years and money because you never know if the worst can happen.
The Rays took a risk, but he has superstar written all over him. If the cards fall correctly, he has a chance to provide more bang for the buck.
This was a win-win, takes away risk on both sides...the boy will eventually earn his huge payday and unless the landscape changes, it will be in a major market team giving him the plus 5-10% mark up on the price of a number 1 starter. It will likely be in another uniform, bet yet likely in the Northeast.
Risk more than worth it atleast on Moore's part. He's set for life. Sure he might be underpaid in the relative short-term. But it beats blowing out your arm and having to worry about money later on.
I agree it applies more to pitchers, but whenever you get that kind of contract, you sort of have to take it. Sure you can hold out for more, but anything can happen at any time.
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#20
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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:09 PM
It's called being a smart organization.
Tough for a kid to turn down that kind of money. If you were sitting at a roulette table with 250K and someone came over and handed you 14 million, would you put the 14 million on red and go for the 28, or would you take the 14 and run?
He's only making a few hundred grand for the next couple years if he doesn't sign that extension. Anything could happen during that time. Plus, if he does turn into a superstar, he will likely command an extension a year or so before free agency, and if not, he'll make his money by the time he's 30 years old anyway so he'll still get his big deal by then.
Not going to disagree about the "smart organization" part, but I don't think the Yankees or Red Sox make this same move. With Tampa, it's the only way to compete. Once he hits the open market they can't compete with the bigger fish. So they have to take a risk now to get a reward later, did the same thing with Longoria.
If the Orioles would've been in Tampa's position, what should they have done offered Matusz an extension at the end of 2010?
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