115 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

I agree we overpaid for both KRod and Norris, but no way IMO do the Comp A pick, Delmonico, and Haden get us even remotely close to Masterson.

[Cisc-O's]

Hyperbole is fun.  I would like to have that comp pick.  It would make giving up the 1st pick more palatable.  I hope DD learned a lesson there.

[dude]

...., but no way IMO do the Comp A pick, Delmonico, and Haden get us even remotely close to Masterson.

 

I don't know what you think they could get for him.

 

The CompA pick IS what they will get from him a year from now.

[Sangar]

Norris wants to show his true self? He's not going to streak is he?

[clapdiddy]

I think he needs to learn another pitch to be successful against lefties.

[aurelius]

I think he'll wind up being a good pickup. I like the 57 K's in 50 IP for the orioles. Of course that doesn't tell the whole story, but I think it says there's talent to work with. If Bud Norris is a stock, I'm buying not selling.

[Mackus]

I don't know what you think they could get for him.

 

The CompA pick IS what they will get from him a year from now.

 

They'd get a package similar or better as to what the Brewers got for Greinke.  At least right now when he'd still net the team acquiring him a pick.  once the season starts, it'd be a package less than Greinke, but still more than Comp A and two non-top 100 prospects (though I personally was very high on Delmonico, liked him more than Schoop).

[dude]

They'd get a package similar or better as to what the Brewers got for Greinke.  At least right now when he'd still net the team acquiring him a pick.  once the season starts, it'd be a package less than Greinke, but still more than Comp A and two non-top 100 prospects (though I personally was very high on Delmonico, liked him more than Schoop).

 

The Brewers got Ariel Pena, Johnny Hellweg and Jean Segura.

 

Segura wasn't a top100 guy and has significantly outperformed his value perception

[Mackus]

If Comp A, Delmonico, and Hader would net us Masterson, then Masterson would be an Oriole right now, because we definitely can beat that deal with the guys still left in our system, and that's without using Bundy or Gausman.

 

I just don't think that the guys we gave up for Norris & KRod get us anywhere near Masterson.  Only the pick has any considerable value.  I was really high on Delmonico, but the consensus was that he wasn't really approaching the top-100.  Hader wasn't even in our weak top-10, was he?  Maybe he sneaks into a top-200 if the overall lists wen that far.

 

I certainly agree we overpaid for both KRod and Norris, but I think it's overstating it to suggest that the same guys would've netted us Masterson now.  He's got a ton more value than that, even with only 1 year left on his deal.

[dude]

If Comp A, Delmonico, and Hader would net us Masterson, then Masterson would be an Oriole right now, because we definitely can beat that deal with the guys still left in our system, and that's without using Bundy or Gausman.

 

I just don't think that the guys we gave up for Norris & KRod get us anywhere near Masterson.  Only the pick has any considerable value.  I was really high on Delmonico, but the consensus was that he wasn't really approaching the top-100.  Hader wasn't even in our weak top-10, was he?  Maybe he sneaks into a top-200 if the overall lists wen that far.

 

I certainly agree we overpaid for both KRod and Norris, but I think it's overstating it to suggest that the same guys would've netted us Masterson now.  He's got a ton more value than that, even with only 1 year left on his deal.

 

I think Hader and Delmonico would have been 5-6-7 with Schoop this year ahead of Wright, Berry.....

 

I think guys just don't get as much with only one year left which is the issue the Orioles have with Wieters next year.....which is why they are likely riding him out unless a trade pops up in July.

 

With a number of pitchers still on the market, if you (a team) wanted a guy, why give up more than a draft pick when you can give up a draft pick and sign Jimenez or Santana.  Cubs talked about trading Shark but it doesn't appear the deals were out there.  The RedSox could still move a pitcher, so there are a lot of options still for anyone looking for a SP.....which minimizes Masterson's trade value some (one year service remaining).

[Matt_P]

With one year left at a cost of ten million Masterson has limited value. He's nowhere near as good as a guy like Greinke after all. The major question is whether or not you can get a pick for him. Is he worth a QO? If he has a bad year then no.

 

In contrast, the Os got two and a half years of Norris for considerably less than ten million in any year. I wouldn't be surprised if Norris was worth more than Masterson without the pick.

[Oriole85]

@BudNorris25 Tomorrow starts a journey. Hard work pays off. Blessed to be an Oriole. #believe #TRUST

[Mackus]

Bud may lose his ability to pitch many innings

 

I'm a Norris fan, but I wouldn't count "innings eater" as one of his strengths.  He's never averaged over 6 innings a start in his career (exactly 6.0 in 2011).

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'm a Norris fan, but I wouldn't count "innings eater" as one of his strengths.  He's never averaged over 6 innings a start in his career (exactly 6.0 in 2011).

 

I'm a Norris fan, and I think his ability to provide innings is one of his strengths. 3 straight years of 168.1+ innings. Not a 'ton' of innings, but 3 years in a row he's been able to make 30 starts and that has value.

[Mackus]

I'm a Norris fan, and I think his ability to provide innings is one of his strengths. 3 straight years of 168.1+ innings. Not a 'ton' of innings, but 3 years in a row he's been able to make 30 starts and that has value.

 

He's durable in terms of staying healthy and avoiding needing spot starters.  He's not durable in terms of pitching deep into games and helping your bullpen.

[BSLChrisStoner]

He's durable in terms of staying healthy and avoiding needing spot starters.  He's not durable in terms of pitching deep into games and helping your bullpen.

 

He is when you compare him to other 5th starters. (Eh, shouldn't say this as fact.. just a guess.. haven't looked it up. But my guess is that a 'league average 5th' doesn't have his level of consistency.)

[Mackus]

He is when you compare him to other 5th starters. (Eh, shouldn't say this as fact.. just a guess.. haven't looked it up. But my guess is that a 'league average 5th' doesn't have his level of consistency.)

 

That's because there really isn't any such thing as a league average 5th starter.  Very few teams have 3 guys that last in the rotation all year, yet alone 5.  So the 5th starter is really a combination of 3 or 4 guys who all weren't good enough to be in the rotation to begin with, so the numbers look bad, especially so if you look at them in terms of total innings pitcher by each pitcher.

[BSLChrisStoner]

That's because there really isn't any such thing as a league average 5th starter.  Very few teams have 3 guys that last in the rotation all year, yet alone 5.  So the 5th starter is really a combination of 3 or 4 guys who all weren't good enough to be in the rotation to begin with, so the numbers look bad, especially so if you look at them in terms of total innings pitcher by each pitcher.

 

Well.. right... but that illustrates my point. Norris should be a step above that level of production... that's why he has value.

[Mackus]

Well.. right... but that illustrates my point. Norris should be a step above that level of production... that's why he has value.

 

His value is because he's a decent pitcher.  Not because he amasses innings.  We'd get the same 160-180 innings from some collection of guys starting in the #5 spot that we're going to get from Norris.  Norris doesn't provide more innings than the group of misfits would.  He should have a much better shot at providing those innings at a 4-4.5 ERA than the collection of other guys would, though, and that's why he's valuable.

[mweb08]

Bud may lose his ability to pitch many innings

 
I'm a Norris fan, but I wouldn't count "innings eater" as one of his strengths.  He's never averaged over 6 innings a start in his career (exactly 6.0 in 2011).

That's not what I was saying. If he becomes a 1-2 inning reliever, he may lose his ability to pitch as a starter without bring stretched out again. Thus, the SP depth is affected, at least in the short-term.