HOF
Posted 27 December 2014 - 12:32 AM
Bonds
Clemens
Pedro
Johnson
Smoltz
Raines
Mussina
Biggio
just 8
Why no Bagwell or Piazza?
Piazza is easily the best-hitting catcher ever, and Bagwell has an argument for best first baseman in National League history.
HOF
Posted 27 December 2014 - 10:17 AM
I only disagree with that fact if a player is one of the best ever at something. If a guy is going to only hit 300 home runs, then yes, he should be hitting for a high average, and stealing bases, and flashing the leather if he wants to make a case for the HOF. Even if Rickey Henderson wasn't great at other things, hes still a HOFer to me based on his steals alone, best ever.It absolutely should matter if you steal 30 bases, but get caught 15 times. That's really not better than someone who stole 7 bases and got caught 3 times, but you wouldn't be making a big deal of that. Sosa's case is based on his amazing stretch as one of the best power hitters ever, not on his early years where he was a good, but not great player. Also, what McGwire or anyone else does on the bases and in the field should matter. Do you really disagree? He still has a good case, though if PEDs aren't considered, but not as one of the 10 best eligible players IMO.
HOF
Posted 27 December 2014 - 10:27 AM
HOF
Posted 27 December 2014 - 11:47 AM
The last part of that post is silly and you know that. I'll post my top 10 sometime next week when I get home and have a chance to really get into it. I did write a long article on this site last year with my HOF ballot. So try to find that if you just can't wait.
It was meant to be silly.
HOF
Posted 27 December 2014 - 12:02 PM
It was meant to be silly.The last part of that post is silly and you know that. I'll post my top 10 sometime next week when I get home and have a chance to really get into it. I did write a long article on this site last year with my HOF ballot. So try to find that if you just can't wait.
Banned
Posted 28 December 2014 - 05:18 PM
HOF
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:09 PM
If you think there are 20 deserving players on the ballot you really need to raise your standards.
Banned
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:24 PM
Nope. There isn't 20 worthy players on that ballot. And Im not necessarily holding PEDs against anyone.
Banned
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:31 PM
It's so depressing that I can look at that ballot and name a full second ten of guys who also should be in:
Kent
E. Martinez
Mattingly
McGriff
McGwire
Sheffield
Smoltz
Sosa
Trammell
Walker
Lets take these 10 for example. Trammell is a legit candidate. Smoltz is a legit candidate. Everyone else has real question marks. I could be talked into some but certainly not all of them. You really have to stretch to even make decent arguments for Mattingly or McGriff. Sosa was a complete product of PEDs. Guy was a nice AS caliber player for a 4-5 year without the cheating.
I mean come on. You guys grew up watching these guys play. There should be no excuse not to effectively use the eye test. Anybody sitting there telling me they are voting in Fred McGriff should never ever get a vote. Not even one here at BSL.
I'll buy that there could be 15 worthy players on the ballot. But the last 3-4 guys would need serious discussion. To just vote them in plus another 5 is just careless.
Owner
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:33 PM
Nope. There isn't 20 worthy players on that ballot. And Im not necessarily holding PEDs against anyone.
I agree. There are 20 players you can make cases for based on some historical standards.... but I'm a small hall guy. There are guys eligible who had great careers, that I don't think should be HOF.
I Miss McNulty
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:35 PM
I agree. There are 20 players you can make cases for based on some historical standards.... but I'm a small hall guy. There are guys eligible who had great careers, that I don't think should be HOF.
There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note
"Now OPS sucks. Got it."
"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."
"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty
@bopper33
HOF
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:39 PM
Biggio, Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, RJ, Pedro, Mussina, Schilling, Smoltz, Piazza and Raines...those guys are all shoo ins.
I guess 20 may be a stretch but I think you can find 3-7 more guys that have excellent cases.
Owner
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:41 PM
You know what they say about guys with small HOFs...
Ha.
I get the arguments people make for inclusion.... it is hard to say 'no' to some guys when you look back and see some of the players who are in the HOF.
Ultimately though I think just because someone else previously got in with lower standards, doesn't mean you have to include someone else.
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:42 PM
Well, has anybody gotten in recently who you think doesn't deserve it?
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
HOF
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:44 PM
Well, has anybody gotten in recently who you think doesn't deserve it?
Banned
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:47 PM
Well, has anybody gotten in recently who you think doesn't deserve it?
On the actual ballot or like vet picks??
I would need to see a list by the voters over the last 10 years. No one stands out off the top of the head.
Banned
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:47 PM
Rice a voters pick or vets pick??
HOF
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:48 PM
Rice a voters pick or vets pick??
HOF
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:55 PM
You know what they say about guys with small HOFs...
It's not the size of the HOF, it's the motion of the voting.
HOF
Posted 28 December 2014 - 09:59 PM
I mean come on. You guys grew up watching these guys play. There should be no excuse not to effectively use the eye test.
The eye test put Andre Dawson and Jim Rice in the Hall of Fame. And, frankly, it's the primary argument for Mattingly, too.
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