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#2341 russsnyder

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 03:43 AM

RIP to the true American legend Willie Mays.
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#2342 russsnyder

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 03:48 AM


Johnny Bench or Pete Rose. The latter may be personna non grata in baseball for reasons we all know, but it's safe to say that every one of those hits he got were legit.

I'll counter that it's likely that Rose played the majority of his career on speed since that was the PED of choice during the 60's and 70's. if this is the case, how can his hits be more legitimate than Bonds?
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#2343 russsnyder

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 03:51 AM

It sucks this isn't the 1980s so we could be regaled with stories of folks having seen Willie freakin Mays in his prime.


Sucks for us, but not for Willie!
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#2344 russsnyder

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 03:56 AM

Bonds.

But for those that want to do the no connection to PEDs version: Rickey Henderson and Mike Schmidt have cases as position players and then there's plenty of pitching candidates including Maddux, Johnson, and Pedro.

Bonds is absolutely the greatest living player. It sucks that he has become persona no grata in baseball in the wake of Mays'death. The greatest living player torch would have been great to pass from another Giant, family friend, and mentor.

I'm going with Henderson. Greatest leadoff hitter of all time, combination of power and speed, and he absolutely loved to play the game.The guy played in the independent league well into his forties.
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#2345 1970

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 07:33 AM

By bWAR:

Bonds - Clemens - ARod - Henderson - Schmidt - Maddux - Pujols - Johnson - Morgan - Yaz

 

That’s some great players.  I’m not sure how many of you saw Joe Morgan, but he was really good.


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#2346 1970

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 07:37 AM

Maybe the three saddest things I saw as a sports fan (in no particular order):

 

- Watching Brooks during his last season.  It was so obvious he was done.

 

- Watching Johnny U play for the Chargers.  His last season was with them and his first game was against Washington, which means I was able to watch the game.  He had no business playing - especially on that putrid team.

 

- Watching Willie play in the playoffs that final season.  I was happy to see him play in a WS and in NY, but he was clearly done.

 

I do recall watching him play in some All Star games before that.  What a fun player to watch, even in his late 30’s.


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#2347 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 08:34 AM

By bWAR:

Bonds - Clemens - ARod - Henderson - Schmidt - Maddux - Pujols - Johnson - Morgan - Yaz

 

That’s some great players.  I’m not sure how many of you saw Joe Morgan, but he was really good.

 



#2348 1970

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 08:52 AM

 

Forgot he died.  Welp, scratch that name.



#2349 mdrunning

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 08:56 AM

I'll counter that it's likely that Rose played the majority of his career on speed since that was the PED of choice during the 60's and 70's. if this is the case, how can his hits be more legitimate than Bonds?

Speed (or "greenies") was commonplace back then and was legal until 2006.



#2350 russsnyder

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 11:02 AM

Speed (or "greenies") was commonplace back then and was legal until 2006.


Still a PED by today's definition

Steroids were not banned or tested for by MLB until they weren't.

All that said, I'm fine with Rose being in the "greatest living player"discussion. I just don't ; think he is
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#2351 Mike B

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 02:24 PM

Maybe the three saddest things I saw as a sports fan (in no particular order):

 

- Watching Brooks during his last season.  It was so obvious he was done.

 

- Watching Johnny U play for the Chargers.  His last season was with them and his first game was against Washington, which means I was able to watch the game.  He had no business playing - especially on that putrid team.

 

- Watching Willie play in the playoffs that final season.  I was happy to see him play in a WS and in NY, but he was clearly done.

 

I do recall watching him play in some All Star games before that.  What a fun player to watch, even in his late 30’s.

I remember watching Willie in that world Series.  Maybe the last game he got a hit and fell running to first base.  It was sad to see that happen.

I agree on Brooks and John.  

 

My father worked on a charity with Johnny and he told my Dad, that he should have never gone to San Diego and should have retired after his last game as  Colt.  He threw a TD pass to Eddie Hinton and the place erupted.  Eddie ran down the sidelines like a man on a mission.  He wanted to help John go out in style.


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#2352 CantonJester

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 02:27 PM

I dunno. I wouldn’t include Rose in a short list of greatest living position players because he lacked range at basically every position he played (save for the first couple seasons in his career where he primarily played OF). 

 

Bench, Rickey Henderson, Junior, Trout…

 

I’m cool with omitting the PED users from this discussion, btw. 

 

 

ETA - removed Joe Morgan from the list. (RIP)


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#2353 Mike B

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 02:28 PM

Maybe the three saddest things I saw as a sports fan (in no particular order):

 

- Watching Brooks during his last season.  It was so obvious he was done.

 

- Watching Johnny U play for the Chargers.  His last season was with them and his first game was against Washington, which means I was able to watch the game.  He had no business playing - especially on that putrid team.

 

- Watching Willie play in the playoffs that final season.  I was happy to see him play in a WS and in NY, but he was clearly done.

 

I do recall watching him play in some All Star games before that.  What a fun player to watch, even in his late 30’s.

I think what kept them and many others going was the need for money.

 

The great players did not break the bank in those days.  Many had regular jobs in the off season.  They kept playing to keep the money coming in.


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#2354 russsnyder

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 02:31 PM

I dunno. I wouldn’t include Rose in a short list of greatest living position players because he lacked range at basically every position he played (save for the first couple seasons in his career where he primarily played OF).

Bench, Morgan, Rickey Henderson, Junior, Trout…

I’m cool with omitting the PED users from this discussion, btw.


Unfortunately, Joe Morgan passed away in 2020.
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#2355 russsnyder

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 02:32 PM

I think what kept them and many others going was the need for money.

The great players did not break the bank in those days. Many had regular jobs in the off season. They kept playing to keep the money coming in.


Good point.

Brooks and Johnny U also had some financial issues.

Not real sure about Willie Mays.
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#2356 CantonJester

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 02:34 PM

Unfortunately, Joe Morgan passed away in 2020.

 

oops. Let me fix that.



#2357 CantonJester

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 02:35 PM

Yeah the more I think about it, Arte Moreno has managed to deny the sport and its fans what should be a slam dunk answer:

 

Mike Trout. 



#2358 1970

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 03:47 PM

oops. Let me fix that.

 

I made the same mistake earlier.  I had completely forgotten that he passed.



#2359 mdrunning

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Posted 19 June 2024 - 11:04 PM

Good point.

Brooks and Johnny U also had some financial issues.

Not real sure about Willie Mays.

Particularly Unitas. Just as everything he touched on the field turned to gold, everything he touched off the field turned to manure. I believe he had to file for bankruptcy at least once.

 

I don't know what Mays' financial situation was, but both he and Mickey Mantle were both banned from baseball for a time.



#2360 Mike B

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Posted 20 June 2024 - 08:59 AM

Good point.

Brooks and Johnny U also had some financial issues.

Not real sure about Willie Mays.

Yea, I think both Brooks and Johnny got taken by a business partner in a sporting goods store they owned.


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