110 replies to this topic

[JeremyStrain]

Agreed, but the cost of doing business with guys like Sano, Cespedes, and the new Miquel Gonzalez is in another stratosphere.

 

The Orioles under Angelos will not pony up that kind of money for the big ticket guys.

 

Sano was cheap. The other guys are pricey if you look at them like domestic prospects that may just flame out, but IFA, especially from Cuba are a little different than that.

 

I'm not saying to spend extra money even, I'm saying reallocate and spend it wiser. Yes, they should be spending MORE money on this stuff as well, but leaving that argument for another day, they could easily stop giving $4m to mid-tier Japanese players for 2 years, stop spending so much money on redundancy in the lineup (14 DH's) and stop spending too much money in the BP and have PLENTY of money to sign some of these guys.

 

Cespedes got 4/$36 = $9m per year. If we weren't spending $13m+ in the BP, and another $5m on McLouth, Reimold and Betemit, you'd have money. Not to mention that awful contract that Nick's has turned into.

 

Just spend money better...that's all I'm asking of them, for now.

[Jon Shepherd]

Sano was cheap. The other guys are pricey if you look at them like domestic prospects that may just flame out, but IFA, especially from Cuba are a little different than that.

 

I'm not saying to spend extra money even, I'm saying reallocate and spend it wiser. Yes, they should be spending MORE money on this stuff as well, but leaving that argument for another day, they could easily stop giving $4m to mid-tier Japanese players for 2 years, stop spending so much money on redundancy in the lineup (14 DH's) and stop spending too much money in the BP and have PLENTY of money to sign some of these guys.

 

Cespedes got 4/$36 = $9m per year. If we weren't spending $13m+ in the BP, and another $5m on McLouth, Reimold and Betemit, you'd have money. Not to mention that awful contract that Nick's has turned into.

 

Just spend money better...that's all I'm asking of them, for now.

 

Setting a new record for a IFA youth is not cheap.  There is a bit of difference in the type of prospect one is acquiring there.

[Mackus]

Setting a new record for a IFA youth is not cheap.  There is a bit of difference in the type of prospect one is acquiring there.

 

It's very cheap compared to what an equally talented player in the draft would cost you, yet alone considering that you have to also be in position to select that player.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Money aside, Duq has done a much better job scouring the earth for hidden gems already. Chen, Gonzalez, Wada was a nice prospect that got hurt, Urrutia, etc.

[Jon Shepherd]

It's very cheap compared to what an equally talented player in the draft would cost you, yet alone considering that you have to also be in position to select that player.

 

Actually, Sano in the draft would have cost about a third of what the Twins paid.  Cost drops a ton when only one team is allowed to bid on it.

[Jon Shepherd]

Money aside, Duq has done a much better job scouring the earth for hidden gems already. Chen, Gonzalez, Wada was a nice prospect that got hurt, Urrutia, etc.

 

Wada...not sure I would count a guy who throw a mid-80s fastball as a nice prospect.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Wada...not sure I would count a guy who throw a mid-80s fastball as a nice prospect.

 

Not prospect in the terms of MiL system prospect, but prospect to be effective for us in one fashion or another. I think he had a chance to be decent, prior to the injury that's clearly rendered him useless at this point.

 

Either way, that doesn't change my point. DD >>>>>> AM as far as the international market is concerned. Though, I love me some Koji.

[Mackus]

Actually, Sano in the draft would have cost about a third of what the Twins paid.  Cost drops a ton when only one team is allowed to bid on it.

 

If he's a top-10 pick as his talent level implies, he almost certainly costs more.  If he's end of the first round, he costs less.

 

Either way, he's amazingly cheap when factoring in that you don't have to be sitting there with a pick and draft him just to be able to have the right to give him money.  You could've added him and still have had your chances of adding talent through the draft the normal way.

 

The system is different now obviously so those opportunities are now effectively lost.

[Jon Shepherd]

What Sano is now...he was not then. He was a comp level talent when he was signable.

[Mackus]

He was the best international prospect in the class. No chance he would've slipped to the late 30s had he been draft eligible.

[Jon Shepherd]

Yep...he would have. We are talking about a 16 yo with age questions, possible bad body, and concerns over pitch recognition. It took a couple years for scouts to really believe in him. This was not a slam dunk signing.

[Tucker Blair]

Yep...he would have. We are talking about a 16 yo with age questions, possible bad body, and concerns over pitch recognition. It took a couple years for scouts to really believe in him. This was not a slam dunk signing.

So...people had concerns about a player? I think that goes for everyone.

 

There was not a player at the time that had more raw ability than Sano. He was a consensus top guy, and I know for a fact that many scouts drooled over him at the time.

Maybe some scouts thought that, but it doesn't really matter. There were (clearly) people that thought he was the real deal. And the Twins look to have been absolutely right.

[JeremyStrain]

Setting a new record for a IFA youth is not cheap.  There is a bit of difference in the type of prospect one is acquiring there.

 

You know what I mean. Grand scheme of things. Big fish for IFA youth, small fish when you are comparing to the Cuban/Japanese guys. Cheap wasn't a good word choice for what I meant though.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Sano aside, Cespedes is the guy I wanted to see a push for.

 

They went and scouted him directly... they had a greater body of work to make some evaluations from. There seemed to be a larger consensus of what he would provide.

 

That was the gamble I wanted the O's to make a priority.

[JeremyStrain]

So...people had concerns about a player? I think that goes for everyone.

 

There was not a player at the time that had more raw ability than Sano. He was a consensus top guy, and I know for a fact that many scouts drooled over him at the time.

Maybe some scouts thought that, but it doesn't really matter. There were (clearly) people that thought he was the real deal. And the Twins look to have been absolutely right.

 

I mean, he's right, scouts were pretty split on him, cause there just wasn't a ton of looks at him or video out there at the time. There were age concerns too. I liked some of the tools I saw though, the power just dripped off that bat, and he was agile enough to look like he'd hang around 3rd for a while. I know some guys that were sold and some guys that weren't interested too though.

 

I know I really had to argue with a couple guys about him.

[Jon Shepherd]

So...people had concerns about a player? I think that goes for everyone.
 
There was not a player at the time that had more raw ability than Sano. He was a consensus top guy, and I know for a fact that many scouts drooled over him at the time.
Maybe some scouts thought that, but it doesn't really matter. There were (clearly) people that thought he was the real deal. And the Twins look to have been absolutely right.

Not enough to convince teams otherwise...IFAs got about 3x draft market at that time. Age concerns and other questions dropped bonuses offered from the mid 5MM down to half a dozen tes dropping out and a couple million. Further questions made him a big red flag and considered untouchable. Without the concerns surrounding him...he was probably a top ten, maybe 3 to 5. But his record was not clean enough for that consideration.

This information comes from those near the family and a couple people from offices. Sano is probably the IFA that I have far and away the most knowledge on.

[Matt]

This was on BaseballAmerica today: http://www.baseballa...dariel-alvarez/

The Orioles announced the signing of Dariel Alvarez, a 24-year-old outfielder from Cuba.

Alvarez had modest numbers in his final season Cuba and the skeptical scouting reports to match. Playing for Camaguey in Serie Nacional in 2011-12, Alvarez hit .272/.343/.392 in 319 plate appearances, which puts him a little below league average in both on-base percentage and slugging in the Cuban league, and eighth on his own team in OBP.

Scouts didn’t have many positive things to say about Alvarez. Several scouts said he struggles against live pitching, with an uppercut righthanded swing that has effort in it to try to lift the ball with occasional power. His best tool is his arm, and at one point there was talk about Alvarez converting to pitching, but the Orioles signed him as a hitter.

Alvarez, who is 6-foot-2, 180 pounds, did hit better the previous season in Cuba in 2010-11, when he batted .363/.404/.613 with 20 home runs in 376 plate appearances, his only productive season in the league.

The Orioles said Alvarez will report to high Class A Frederick after reporting to Sarasota this week. His signing is not subject to the 2013-14 international bonus pools.

[mweb08]

Doesn't sound very promising. I guess we have to hope he's more like the 2011 season guy than the 2012 guy.

[BaltBird 24]

Alvarez had a pretty nice debut for the GCL Orioles today....

 

4 AB, 2 H, 2 R, 1 3B, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 1 K

[BSLChrisStoner]

Alvarez had a pretty nice debut for the GCL Orioles today....

 

4 AB, 2 H, 2 R, 1 3B, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 1 K

 

Know nobody is going to get enthusiastic about a 24 year old in the GCL... but beats the alternative. Hopefully has a good couple of weeks. Maybe plays in the Fall or Winter... ready to go to full-season (Bowie?) next Spring.