110 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

Either way, I just don't see the O's ever doing that. Until I see them sign a blue-chip IFA, I won't believe they would do it.

[JeremyStrain]

Either way, I just don't see the O's ever doing that. Until I see them sign a blue-chip IFA, I won't believe they would do it.

 

Just my venting that they didn't, at least on the easy ones. I wasn't as sold on Soler as a lot of people are, but I really liked those 3. My thing is always, if I can see it, why can't they?

[You Play to Win the Game]

Just my venting that they didn't, at least on the easy ones. I wasn't as sold on Soler as a lot of people are, but I really liked those 3. My thing is always, if I can see it, why can't they?

 

I hear ya. It is still a frustration for me as well. I'm glad to see that Duq is significantly more active than AM was in this realm though. 

[JeremyStrain]

I hear ya. It is still a frustration for me as well. I'm glad to see that Duq is significantly more active than AM was in this realm though. 

 

Yeah and don't get me wrong, I'm glad that he's in on the ones he is, even if it is a completely different kind of tier. The IFA game is changing right now anyway, so this might just be the only way to play the game, I'm just still salty about some past ones you know.

 

The Cuban market is one I'd have been more inclined to spend the big money before looking at past results, and the rates the Japanese guys were getting. Cuban competition is good enough to develop guys to a high-A/AA level, so they aren't as raw as dominican guys and don't have the wear and tear/competition worries that the Japanese guys do. Just my POV though.

[mweb08]

Just my venting that they didn't, at least on the easy ones. I wasn't as sold on Soler as a lot of people are, but I really liked those 3. My thing is always, if I can see it, why can't they?

Doesn't matter if they can see what they want to buy if PA won't allow them to go shopping.

[JeremyStrain]

Doesn't matter if they can see what they want to buy if PA won't allow them to go shopping.

 

Then they need to do a better job selling him. He's spent money on resigning guys, he's signed off on spending stupid amounts on journeyman RP. I refuse to believe that someone can't get him to sign off on spending on some of these guys. Especially Sano, what were they, like 300k short? They spent more on ONE YEAR of Jamie Walker than they would have spent on 6 years of Sano.

[BobPhelan]

Just too bad they wait until after Sano, Cespedes, and Puig to start jumping into these.

I thought I remembered people being baffled at how much Puig got, at least on the Goldstein/Parks podcast.

[JeremyStrain]

I thought I remembered people being baffled at how much Puig got, at least on the Goldstein/Parks podcast.

 

Depends on who you talk to. Even amongst the national guys there are always some guys that think they know it all and then are outraged/surprised at something, then later it turns out to be a good move and they pretend like it never happened. No one is right all the time. LA def outbid everyone to win, no question, but it's not like some of these Japanese contracts, and it should be compared more to them than the IFA deals because of the structure and development they get. It's not like the DR where they are playing stickball in the street. Castro sinks some money into developing these kids as best as they can.

 

For me the most important tool for IFA guys is their hit tool. Being able to recognize what pitches they can and can't hit is huge, and all the power in the world isn't going to help if you chase bad pitches all day. Puig was better in that area than a lot of guys, so I had high hopes. To me he had a better hit tool than Cespedes, but not quite as much power. Other than that they are pretty similar. Still, either were players we could really use for $5-6m per year. They had no trouble wasting $4m on Wada, even though it was a shorter term, how many of the cuban guys DON'T work out at least serviceable compared to those who do? I think there's like a 60-70% success rate or something right now.

[Mike B]

Just too bad they wait until after Sano, Cespedes, and Puig to start jumping into these.

Agreed, but the cost of doing business with guys like Sano, Cespedes, and the new Miquel Gonzalez is in another stratosphere.

 

The Orioles under Angelos will not pony up that kind of money for the big ticket guys.

[Mackus]

Agreed, but the cost of doing business with guys like Sano, Cespedes, and the new Miquel Gonzalez is in another stratosphere.

 

The Orioles under Angelos will not pony up that kind of money for the big ticket guys.

 

Sano wasn't another stratosphere.  He signed for something like $3M.  The new rules for young kids in international free agency make the point a bit moot now, though.

 

Cespedes and Gonzalez are a different level.  Duquette has shown a willingness to give money to international veterans, and even MacPhail signed Koji for about the same total commitment as Chen and Wada got.  However, I think Angelos would have to approve if they were gonna spend $40-60M on a player, yet alone the $100-120M price tag that guys like Matsuzaka and Darvish got.  And I still don't think he's ever likely to approve of such a signing.  I'd be a bit surprised if he ever allows a $50-60M MLB free agent signing again (other than extending your own guys).  No way do I ever envision Angelos allowing a $40M+ commitment to an unproven guy from Cuba.

[Mike B]

Then they need to do a better job selling him. He's spent money on resigning guys, he's signed off on spending stupid amounts on journeyman RP. I refuse to believe that someone can't get him to sign off on spending on some of these guys. Especially Sano, what were they, like 300k short? They spent more on ONE YEAR of Jamie Walker than they would have spent on 6 years of Sano.

I agree with your logic but it is not going to happen.  Let's look at it from another angle.  If the Orioles were to spend big bucks on one of the mega prospects and he flames out, what will be the reciprocal damage in regards to PGA.  I think we are still seeing the Albert Belle effect on our domestic free agent signings.  There is a reason why the Orioles are not players on big time FA's and there is reason why all of our GM's toe pretty much the same line in regards to spending.  It is PGA.  We hear Buck and DD always give credit to PGA, when we do sign someone or when and expenditure is made on equipment, like the Sarasota tarp, and that reason is, they are stroking Peter's ego. 

The Orioles under Angelos are going to always trade in the second level FA's.  Credit the FO for making that work the last few years.

The good news is we seem to be willing to pay to keep our core guys.  I think if Peter knows them and sees them, he is inclined to spend to keep them.

[Mike B]

Sano wasn't another stratosphere.  He signed for something like $3M.  The new rules for young kids in international free agency make the point a bit moot now, though.

 

Cespedes and Gonzalez are a different level.  Duquette has shown a willingness to give money to international veterans, and even MacPhail signed Koji for about the same total commitment as Chen and Wada got.  However, I think Angelos would have to approve if they were gonna spend $40-60M on a player, yet alone the $100-120M price tag that guys like Matsuzaka and Darvish got.  And I still don't think he's ever likely to approve of such a signing.  I'd be a bit surprised if he ever allows a $50-60M MLB free agent signing again (other than extending your own guys).  No way do I ever envision Angelos allowing a $40M+ commitment to an unproven guy from Cuba.

Agreed, but 3 million is big in Angelos eyes.  Stepping up for 850, for Hank, and 800K for Alvarez seems to be the ceiling.

As far as the new rules, we seem content to trade our slots, which I am sure is DD making the most out of his resources.

 

The international signings are expenditures for players deemed major league ready.  Good topic to discuss though.

[SammyBirdland]

Does anyone know what age 24 translates to in Cuban years?

[Cisc-O's]

Does anyone know what age 24 translates to in Cuban years?

So in your mind every player is on steroids and every Hispanic is lying about their age.  Nice. 

[SammyBirdland]

So in your mind every player is on steroids and every Hispanic is lying about their age.  Nice. 

 

 

[Cisc-O's]

Of course you would choose a picture of a white Alpaca/LLama whatever that thing is .

[SammyBirdland]

Of course you would choose a picture of a white Alpaca/LLama whatever that thing is .

 

 

[Jon Shepherd]

I hear ya. It is still a frustration for me as well. I'm glad to see that Duq is significantly more active than AM was in this realm though. 

 

Of course, Duquette actually spent less in his first year on IFA than MacPhail did in his last (not by much though).  He also is on track to again put the Orioles as one of the lowest spenders on the IFA market.

 

I don't know if PA is holding the pursestrings tight, but it sure seems like he is less and less an obstruction in the operation of the club.  Soon it will probably be time to rest the bogeyman and deal with things that we know he has done.

[Mackus]

I don't know if PA is holding the pursestrings tight, but it sure seems like he is less and less an obstruction in the operation of the club.  Soon it will probably be time to rest the bogeyman and deal with things that we know he has done.

 

As long as the payroll remains in the laughably low realm of $85-95M, we know he's holding the purse strings way too tight.  I also don't think it's remotely beyond reason to suggest that he's the driving force behind the team not spending big on adding talent, either through normal MLB free agency, veterans through Japanese or international free agency, or even spending near to their limits in the capped international free agency for younger players.

[Jon Shepherd]

As long as the payroll remains in the laughably low realm of $85-95M, we know he's holding the purse strings way too tight.  I also don't think it's remotely beyond reason to suggest that he's the driving force behind the team not spending big on adding talent, either through normal MLB free agency, veterans through Japanese or international free agency, or even spending near to their limits in the capped international free agency for younger players.

 

I don't know if we know that.  We have one of the cheapest tickets in the game and in a market that is not the strongest.  Maybe the team can support more than 95MM, but it certainly is not a given.