538 replies to this topic

[PD24]

I didn't read this whole debate, only the last couple pages, but IMO Tiger is clearly one of the top athletes (defined as playing a sport) of our generation, in large part due to the fact that he is actually an "athlete" (defined as being athletic). That may sound weird to some, but to me, he showed that being "athletic" could help people become better golfers. Wearing his tight Nike shirts and showing off his chest/arms has changed golf a bit IMO. Maybe it's just me... 

 

Tiger transformed golf in a way that I don't even think Jack did, although I wasn't alive to see him in his prime. Tiger made it "cool" to play golf. Tiger made it cool to get the latest golf shoes. Tiger made it cool for young golfers to have exotic club covers. Tiger made it cool to wear a swoosh on your hat when playing golf. 

 

I'll go back to my first point. Frankly, he just made it cool to play golf. He wasn't old. He wasn't fat. He wasn't boring. That changed golf, and I think his physical image has a lot to do with it. 

[mweb08]

Good points Peter. I'm not sure they have much to do with ranking the athletes, though.

Btw, I would like to point out that the difference between say 3 and 13 on the other athletes list is substantially smaller than that of the baseball or basketball list.

And regarding Tiger's dominance, there's no question he's been extremely dominant. But at the same time, it's hard to be much more dominant than most of the guys I have on my list. White is incredibly dominant. None of the fighters I listed could have been much more dominant. Sampras is an interesting case because tennis and golf greatness are ultimately measured the same way, and both have four shots a year at adding to their greatness. Tiger and Pete are tied in that regard and tennis provides a much short window to be great than does golf. Pete was also the all-time leader in his sport while Tiger is in second, where Pete is now. So why is Tiger way more dominant than Sampras, or boxers whom never lost(legitimately) til they were well past their prime, or mixed martial artists that have dominated their weight classes like none other, or a cyclist that won 7 straight Tour de France's, or a snowboarder that never loses and is elite in a different sport as an added bonus?

Of course you can make a good case for why Tiger had been more or as dominant as these guys, but a counter argument can also be made.

All of these guys dominated. All are great. Some nitpicking is involved in ranking them. Obviously something that I strongly considered is that golf is vastly inferior athletically to these other sports.

I realize that most would just go with the mainstream answer here in that Tiger is one of the best three or so in the"other" category, and that's fine if you don't consider athleticism involved in that sport, but at the same time, a case can be made for others being approximately as or more dominant in their respective sports.

[PD24]

Good points Peter. I'm not sure they have much to do with ranking the athletes, though.

Btw, I would like to point out that the difference between say 3 and 13 on the other athletes list is substantially smaller than that of the baseball or basketball list.

And regarding Tiger's dominance, there's no question he's been extremely dominant. But at the same time, it's hard to be much more dominant than most of the guys I have on my list. White is incredibly dominant. None of the fighters I listed could have been much more dominant. Sampras is an interesting case because tennis and golf greatness are ultimately measured the same way, and both have four shots a year at adding to their greatness. Tiger and Pete are tied in that regard and tennis provides a much short window to be great than does golf. Pete was also the all-time leader in his sport while Tiger is in second, where Pete is now. So why is Tiger way more dominant than Sampras, or boxers whom never lost(legitimately) til they were well past their prime, or mixed martial artists that have dominated their weight classes like none other, or a cyclist that won 7 straight Tour de France's, or a snowboarder that never loses and is elite in a different sport as an added bonus?

Of course you can make a good case for why Tiger had been more or as dominant as these guys, but a counter argument can also be made.

All of these guys dominated. All are great. Some nitpicking is involved in ranking them. Obviously something that I strongly considered is that golf is vastly inferior athletically to these other sports.

I realize that most would just go with the mainstream answer here in that Tiger is one of the best three or so in the"other" category, and that's fine if you don't consider athleticism involved in that sport, but at the same time, a case can be made for others being approximately as or more dominant in their respective sports.

 

You make a great point with Sampras. Admittedly, I'm not a huge tennis fan so maybe you could shed some light on the quality and quantity of Pete's competition versus Tiger's. 

 

Obviously, most will say Tiger over Pete because he's more popular and golf is the more popular sport, at least here in the US. 

[mweb08]

Here's my top 50:

 

1. Gretzky

2. Jordan

3. Bonds

4. Phelps

5. Rice

6. Carl Lewis

7. Federer

8. Roger Clemens

9. LeBron

10. Messi

11. Magic

12. Lawrence Taylor

13. Bolt

14. Shaun White

15. Anderson Silva

16. Mario Lemieux

17. Lance Armstrong

18. Deion Sanders

19. Reggie White

20. Joe Montana

21. AROD

22. Bird

23. Manning

24. Vitaly Scherbo

25. Pernell Whitaker

26. Ronaldo

27. Tim Duncan

28. Shaq

29. Pete Sampras

30. Randy Johnson

31. Pedro Martinez

32. Greg Maddux

33. Bjorn Daehlie

34. Roy Jones Jr

35. Kobe

36. Anthony Munoz

37. Eric Heiden

38. Floyd Mayweather Jr

39. Ronnie Lott

40. Barry Sanders

41. Michael Johnson

42. Tom Brady

43. GSP

44. Tiger Woods

45. Albert Pujols

46. Rickey Henderson

47. Hakeem Olajuwon

48. Steve Redgrave

49. Zidane

50. Dominik Hakek

[Mike in STL]

Certainly not going to nit pick your list. But mine, Rice would go #2 behind gretzky and in front of jordan. MJ is the best player in NBA history, but he's not the all time leading scorer. Rice and Gretzky have some records that we will likely never see broken. Most importantly the big ones. TDs and Goals. Not saying that Kareem should be at the top based on that theory, but for those top three I go Gretzky Rice MJ

[mweb08]

Plenty of nits can certainly be picked.

Jordan was the clear best player in the NBA for about 8 years with the retirement breaking those years up. Could the same be said for Rice? That's difficult imo due to the differences in positions.

Also, if not for the retirements, MJ would be the all-time leader in scoring so I'm not going to hold that against him. I'm also not a huge counting stats fan.

[Mike in STL]

Also, if not for the retirements, MJ would be the all-time leader in scoring so I'm not going to hold that against him. I'm also not a huge counting stats fan.

Good point.

[mweb08]

With Mayweather dominating another fight, and against an opponent that is supposed to be legit, I think it's time to revisit his placement on my list. I think I undervalued him a bit then and with this win, I think he's a top 25 guy, maybe even top 20. The only real knock on him is that he didn't fight Manny. Otherwise, how could one be much more dominant than him? Which goes back to my reply to Peter, people want to say that Tiger has been incredibly dominant, and he has, but is it clear that he's been more dominant than Mayweather or various others? 

 

Nadal is also making a move and should get onto this list soon, if he doesn't already deserve to be on here.

 

Back to fighting, Jon Jones has a match Saturday and he's a guy that I think has a great shot to be high on this list in the not so distant future. 

[mweb08]

And of course this is a fun thread to look back on.

 

I mentioned Jon Jones in the last bump and he just keeps on dominating so he should be on the list at this point IMO.

[JeremyStrain]

And of course this is a fun thread to look back on.
 
I mentioned Jon Jones in the last bump and he just keeps on dominating so he should be on the list at this point IMO.

Did you just jinx him? I'm really tempted to put some money on Johnson to knock him out now...

[Pedro Cerrano]

It's a big enough arguing with Weber over current debates, nevermind bringing up arguments from years ago.

[mweb08]

Did you just jinx him? I'm really tempted to put some money on Johnson to knock him out now...

 

Go for it.

[bnickle]

It's a big enough arguing with Weber over current debates, nevermind bringing up arguments from years ago.

Hey, I just remembered Weber had Tiger Woods as the 44th  ranked athlete

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

......................SINCE 1980!!!!!!!!   

[BSLChrisStoner]

Mike / Rob... general thoughts on where Trout would now be on your lists?  Also, what about Kershaw?

[Pedro Cerrano]

And of course this is a fun thread to look back on.

I mentioned Jon Jones in the last bump and he just keeps on dominating so he should be on the list at this point IMO.

Yea let's put Jones on there lol.

[SportsGuy]

Mike / Rob... general thoughts on where Trout would now be on your lists? Also, what about Kershaw?

I'm really torn on greatest baseball player I have ever seen...Trout or Bonds. What Bonds did was amazing. But as great as he was, Trout was way better than him at this young age.

I think there's a great argument that if Trout retired tomorrow that he has already done enough to be in the HOF.

I would have to really look into things but good chance I have him in the top 10...Kershaw gets demoted for me because he pitches in a great pitchers park, in the lesser league and hasn't been that good in the playoffs. He makes the list but probably more in the top 35ish area.

[mweb08]

Both above Tiger.

[SportsGuy]

In no particular order...

MJ, LeBron, Tiger, Phelps, Lewis, Rice, Federer, Trout, Messi, Gretzky

Off the top of my head, those would be the names in my top 10.

Serena just misses out but would be fine with her being top 10. I may even put her in top 10 over Tiger.

Can't ignore that Tiger hasn't won a major in a decade and has barely played since 2013.

What did until 2008 was simply incredible but a lot of time has passed since we did this list and nothing good has happened for him..that would have to play a part here.

[SportsGuy]

Could also argue that as great as Trout has been, he needs more time to get into the top 10 here.

[mweb08]

Trout is the best position player since Bonds and Kershaw is the best pitcher since the amazing quartet of Clemens, Pedro, Johnson, and Maddux. 

 

They both need to do it longer to be in the top 30 IMO. Trout looks destined to swim rather far upstream though. See what I did there?