38 replies to this topic

[Pedro Cerrano]

This may sound like a dumb question, but how do international signings work now?  One of your scouts finds a 16 year old kid in some Venezuelan village and you sign him to a deal and he's in your organization?

 

This would seem to greatly benefit teams like the Yankees and Dodgers who have more money to send more scouts to more places.

[BSLChrisStoner]

This may sound like a dumb question, but how do international signings work now?  One of your scouts finds a 16 year old kid in some Venezuelan village and you sign him to a deal and he's in your organization?

 

This would seem to greatly benefit teams like the Yankees and Dodgers who have more money to send more scouts to more places.

 

Some background in these links:

MLB.com: International signing period begins, stars abound  (July 2nd)
http://mlb.mlb.com/n...2&vkey=news_mlb

 

Baseball America: How Trading International Pool Space Works (April 11th, 2013)

http://www.baseballa...ol-space-works/

[Stotle]

This may sound like a dumb question, but how do international signings work now?  One of your scouts finds a 16 year old kid in some Venezuelan village and you sign him to a deal and he's in your organization?

 

This would seem to greatly benefit teams like the Yankees and Dodgers who have more money to send more scouts to more places.

 

Just like the draft, MLB puts the team in order from worst record to best (based on the previous season). Each "slot" is then assigned a value. The aggregate of your allotted spending assignments is then treated as your soft cap, with draft-like penalties for overspending, including taxed money and loss of ability to sign players for a certain price in future years.

 

Players signed for under a certain amount do not count towards your "cap". The system was supposed to prevent teams from just going out and buying up all the talent, but the Cubs/Rangers last year blew through the caps to take a huge chunk of talent at the expense of participating in expensive signings this year. The Yankees have gone one step further, spending almost $30 MM for this J2 period.

 

Now that teams are essentially ignoring the caps, and more info is coming out on players reaching under the table agreements with organizations well in advance of their eligibility, it seems to be a certainty that there will be an international draft in some form by 2016, maybe 2015.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Just like the draft, MLB puts the team in order from worst record to best (based on the previous season). Each "slot" is then assigned a value. The aggregate of your allotted spending assignments is then treated as your soft cap, with draft-like penalties for overspending, including taxed money and loss of ability to sign players for a certain price in future years.

 

Players signed for under a certain amount do not count towards your "cap".

 

Ok, but do the financial penalties really stop the larger market teams?  It just seems to me that the Yankees are always finding the Robinson Canos of the world...the Dodgers found Puig.

 

Although I guess the counter to that is that a guy like Cespedes signed with the smaller market As....

[Stotle]

Ok, but do the financial penalties really stop the larger market teams?  It just seems to me that the Yankees are always finding the Robinson Canos of the world...the Dodgers found Puig.

 

Although I guess the counter to that is that a guy like Cespedes signed with the smaller market As....

 

Puig didn't qualify for the capped spending. Nor did Cespedes or Chapman. Players over a certain age or who are coming from another professional league can be signed for any amount without cap implications.

[Greg Pappas]

Stotle, what are your thoughts on an International Draft? I understand that the question comes without knowing the details, but -in general- do you believe it'll be a good thing?

[Stotle]

Stotle, what are your thoughts on an International Draft? I understand that the question comes without knowing the details, but -in general- do you believe it'll be a good thing?

 

Like most things I think it comes down to how you implement it. From a competitive balance standpoint I think it's generally a good thing. From an ethical standpoint I would hope it comes with the proper infrastructure in various countries to allow for players to be properly trained and for their families/communities to be properly provided for.

[RShack]

Like most things I think it comes down to how you implement it. From a competitive balance standpoint I think it's generally a good thing. From an ethical standpoint I would hope it comes with the proper infrastructure in various countries to allow for players to be properly trained and for their families/communities to be properly provided for.

 

MLB doesn't even treat MiLB players right... why would you think MLB would suddenly get humane about DR kids?  

 

This is about one thing and one thing only: MLB owners ensuring that they don't have to pay as much for DR talent... accomplished by unilaterally taking away the players' right to choose their employer... teams get the choice, so the players lose theirs...

[RShack]

We have seen the future if this comes to fruition, it is called Puerto Rico. Since MLB included Puerto Rican players in the draft the supply has dwindled.

 

Then why didn't this happen in Puerto Rico?

 

Puerto rico doesn't have enough talent to make it worthwhile.

 

So, what happened to the supply of PR players?

[Stotle]

MLB doesn't even treat MiLB players right... why would you think MLB would suddenly get humane about DR kids?  

 

This is about one thing and one thing only: MLB owners ensuring that they don't have to pay as much for DR talent... accomplished by unilaterally taking away the players' right to choose their employer... teams get the choice, so the players lose theirs...

 

MLB is sitting on a very, very large cache of money (which will grow even larger next year) that can only be used "to further efforts on the international front". Seed money to put MLB-sponsored academies/league in place.  Would also fit with direction MLB teams are pointing MLB scouting bureau, with focus on "down the line" amateur talent as opposed to talent that is presently draft/J2 eligible. 

[RShack]

MLB is sitting on a very, very large cache of money (which will grow even larger next year) that can only be used "to further efforts on the international front". Seed money to put MLB-sponsored academies/league in place.  Would also fit with direction MLB teams are pointing MLB scouting bureau, with focus on "down the line" amateur talent as opposed to talent that is presently draft/J2 eligible. 

 

How large is a "very, very large cache of money"?

 

Any signs on the horizon that they're gonna stop treating MiLB players like dirt?

 

p.s. AFAIK, the next time MLB does the right thing rather than the more-money-for-the-owners thing, it will be the very first time.  Please let me know when that happens.

[Stotle]

How large is a "very, very large cache of money"?

 

Any signs on the horizon that they're gonna stop treating MiLB players like dirt?

 

p.s. AFAIK, the next time MLB does the right thing rather than the more-money-for-the-owners thing, it will be the very first time.  Please let me know when that happens.

 

Translation:

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about, or the details involved here. Could you please elaborate? Before you do, know that my mind is well made up on this matter (yes, the very same matter involving the details with which I just said I'm not well versed).

 

PS - My agenda doesn't much allow for nuance, so think hard before engaging me in serious discussion on this front because you're probably just going to get the same canned talking points I would have given you last year, or three years ago, or ten years ago.

[RShack]

Translation:

 

 

Well done.  (Really, no kidding...)

 

I think a more apt translation is:  "I've never seen MLB do the right thing for anybody but the owners, so I'm *extremely* skeptical now.  BTW, how much money have they put aside for this example of doing the right thing?  And are they gonna do anything about the MiLB players?  Give them scholarships?  Pay them a decent wage?  Anything?"

[Stotle]

Well done.  (Really, no kidding...)

 

I think a more apt translation is:  "I've never seen MLB do the right thing for anybody but the owners, so I'm *extremely* skeptical now.  BTW, how much money have they put aside for this example of doing the right thing?  And are they gonna do anything about the MiLB players?  Give them scholarships?  Pay them a decent wage?  Anything?"

 

All of the tax money on signing overages is tabbed for furthering the game internationally by operation of rule. I think that total is over $50 million at this point and is expected to surpass $100 million after next year's signing period, with something like ten teams rumored to be shooting well beyond their allotted signing pools. MLB already has a scholarship program in place.  Increased minor league wages are with exploring. It's an interesting topic, for sure, and a tough exercise parsing the various benefits and assigning value for work put in and results produced.

[RShack]

All of the tax money on signing overages is tabbed for furthering the game internationally by operation of rule. I think that total is over $50 million at this point and is expected to surpass $100 million after next year's signing period, with something like ten teams rumored to be shooting well beyond their allotted signing pools. MLB already has a scholarship program in place.  Increased minor league wages are with exploring. It's an interesting topic, for sure, and a tough exercise parsing the various benefits and assigning value for work put in and results produced.

 

OK... thanks for that...

 

Question:  If somebody (like me, for instance) was skeptical of MLB's motivations, is it crazy to think that the investment they're planning to make is part of a plan that can be expected to save them a lot of money in the long run re: signing these guys?

[Stotle]

OK... thanks for that...

 

Question:  If somebody (like me, for instance) was skeptical of MLB's motivations, is it crazy to think that the investment they're planning to make is part of a plan that can be expected to save them a lot of money in the long run re: signing these guys?

 

I think as a general matter I think owners like to spend less and earn more. On the international front I think there is a lot of dirt that many in ownership would like to see done away with.

 

After this new pooled allotment system was put in place the trendy internet call (including from a handful of very vocal national writers) was that the new pooled allotment system was only put in place to further rob the poor latin american teenagers of their opportunity to earn. The opposite has happened. Not only have bonuses increased, but teams are now being taxed on these record setting bonuses, and continue to spend.

 

Speaking solely for myself, I believe a large contingent of owners would prefer to have a more straightforward process that didn't require your decision makers to reach under-the-table agreements with 15 year olds through talent brokers a year before you can legally ink the player. While saving money is always good for ownership, I firmly believe it's a secondary consideration when it comes to this particular issue.

 

All that said, no I do not think you are anyone would be crazy for being skeptical of MLB motives.

[RShack]

OK... I can see that at least some owners would hate the dirty aspects of what has gone on...

 

At the same time, the notion that they're gonna spend money in the DR to "further the game internationally" seems goofy on its face... because last I heard the DR leads the universe in good ballplayers per capita... which means that to "further the game internationally" you oughta export whatever has been happening in the DR to other places...

 

But I wasn't thinking about the dirty aspects of it...

 

I wonder what the spreadsheet at MLB HQ says about the net cost/benefit of this to owners 15 years down the road...

[BSLChrisStoner]

NBC Sports / HBT: The international draft is all about MLB making money and the union selling out non-members
http://mlb.nbcsports...ut-non-members/

[DJ MC]

Yep.