524 replies to this topic

[BSLMikeLowe]

Fins vets support Richie Incognito

 

Further proof that NFL players just live in a totally different world from the rest of us. And honestly, it's not hard to understand.

[SammyBirdland]

Martin should have "been a man" and gone and punched Incognito in the neck, getting himself arrested.  Then all these guys would be saying "You can't take matters into your own hands like that.  You need to report these things to the team."

 

These fake machismo idiots need to keep their stupid mouths shut.

[Mike in STL]

The more I read, I feel like that voicemail was taken out of context. Tannehill says Incognito and Martin were best friends, and Richie was the first one to defend Jon when he got in a tussle on the field. Sounds like Jon posted on Twitter, Richie was busting his balls about it. Apparently Martin joked about the voicemail at the time, now is trying to use it as an excuse for his emotional distress.

[Oriole85]

The more I read, I feel like that voicemail was taken out of context. Tannehill says Incognito and Martin were best friends, and Richie was the first one to defend Jon when he got in a tussle on the field. Sounds like Jon posted on Twitter, Richie was busting his balls about it. Apparently Martin joked about the voicemail at the time, now is trying to use it as an excuse for his emotional distress.

Given Incognito's history I have a hard time taking his side on this one. I think Incognito went too far on this one. I highly doubt they were best friends. I think Tannehill sees that Incognito is more valuable to the team. I believe this may have started out as light hearted but over time, Martin had enough with it.

 

Like I said before, Martin was in a no-win situation on this one. And as Sammy said above, if Martin had tussled with Incognito and something bad would've happened, I'm sure the same people criticizing Martin would be saying "violence is never the answer not even in football." Always easy to second-guess these things in hindsight especially when we're not privy to all the information out there (before the fact).

 

Some common themes: Dolphins players defending Incognito. Stanford players/coaches defending Martin. It's probably best to ignore both of these groups since they're biased.

[SammyBirdland]

Yesterday Warren Sapp was on the Dan Patrick Show and was asked for his comments.

 

Sapp said that once during a game, Incognito called him the n-word and kicked him.

 

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1508732

[Oriole85]

Yesterday Warren Sapp was on the Dan Patrick Show and was asked for his comments.

 

Sapp said that once during a game, Incognito called him the n-word and kicked him.

 

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1508732

The problem to me is even with many of the Dolphins players defending him, even if he is somehow in the "right" on this one, it's very hard to believe based on his track record.

 

I'm surprised no one (or atleast that I've seen) has pointed out the lack of comment from Incognito excluding that reporter who chased him. Why doesn't Incognito release a simple statement? I realize he can't comment too much on this, but something is better than nothing.

[KWebz]

It's also crazy how the views and opinions on Incognito are polar opposite. On one side players say he was a cool guy and an honorary black man and then other players, mostly opposing defensive linemen, say he was a huge jerk. I'm anxious to see the document that Martin plans to put out. Hopefully it will fill in some gaps.

[Oriole85]

It's also crazy how the views and opinions on Incognito are polar opposite. On one side players say he was a cool guy and an honorary black man and then other players, mostly opposing defensive linemen, say he was a huge jerk. I'm anxious to see the document that Martin plans to put out. Hopefully it will fill in some gaps.

The facts are this, he was kicked out of two college football programs. He's now been suspended and/or cut from three teams in four years. Also, he was voted the dirtiest player in the NFL and second most another year.

 

With the players who were suspended for taking swings at him, I have to believe they were very agitated by him. I'm not defending them and they deserve to get suspended but he probably should've been disciplined as well (assuming he wasn't). I can totally see why an NFL team would want him because of this, as long as he's able to get away with it.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I would imagine that any players defending him are doing so out of the whole "good ole boys club" type of mindset that is prevalent in professional sports. As Madison laid out, the facts are not good for Incognito. And out of context or not, the voice mail is ridiculously embarrassing for him. Regadless of how he meant all that or not, Martin obviously felt bullied. That's not acceptable.

[bnickle]

I would imagine that any players defending him are doing so out of the whole "good ole boys club" type of mindset that is prevalent in professional sports. As Madison laid out, the facts are not good for Incognito. And out of context or not, the voice mail is ridiculously embarrassing for him. Regadless of how he meant all that or not, Martin obviously felt bullied. That's not acceptable.

 I don't think black teammates are going to be coming to Incognito's defense unless it was really true. You say some of the things you say in those texts and voicemails and it's considered to be serious you aren't getting the support of black teammates. "good ole boys club" or not.

 

 

 

I think the answer likely lies in the middle here. II don't think there is any doubt Incognito has issues and crossed big boundaries. At the same time, I think Martin is likely soft and is likely looking for an easy way out or an easy payday.

[SammyBirdland]

 I don't think black teammates are going to be coming to Incognito's defense unless it was really true. You say some of the things you say in those texts and voicemails and it's considered to be serious you aren't getting the support of black teammates. "good ole boys club or not".

 

I would agree in most circumstances, but this one is a little different.   If you speak out against Incognito, you risk being labelled as a crybaby wimp amongst your peers.

[Oriole85]

 I don't think black teammates are going to be coming to Incognito's defense unless it was really true. You say some of the things you say in those texts and voicemails and it's considered to be serious you aren't getting the support of black teammates. "good ole boys club or not".

 

 

 

I think the answer likely lies in the middle here. II don't think there is any doubt Incognito has issues and crossed big boundaries. At the same time, I think Martin is likely soft and is likely looking for an easy way out or an easy payday.

I think black players are largely coming to Incognito's defense because he's more valuable to the team. As Jack Kemp once said (paraphrasing), "There's no color in the locker room." 

 

I'm usually with you in the truth lying somewhere in the middle, but there's too much on Incognito's track record to give him any benefit of the doubt IMO. Maybe this is being overblown somewhat, but I don't think it's ever acceptable to use the N-word, period!

 

I doubt Martin's motive was an easy payday. First of all, look at his background. He comes from a long lineage of Harvard graduates and he could've gone himself. His mother is a corporate lawyer at Toyota and his father is a professor. He went to an elite prep school in LA. He's already making a good deal of $. I don't think this battle is worthwhile for him. You don't just check yourself into a hospital like this unless it's really bad. This had been going on for sometime, at some point enough is enough and everyone has their boiling point.

 

In terms of him being soft, sure you maybe right here. Does it make it acceptable however? He's been largely associated with "good guys" at both the high school/college level, the Pac-12 isn't as intense as the SEC/Big 10/Big 12. Incognito sounds like the typical big bully realizing that he gets under the skin of Martin moreso than other teammates. Someone in that locker room should've said something to Incognito about him already doing damage and his act not being cute anymore. I like to think grown adults can largely police themselves, but in this case, I don't think they can.

[Oriole85]

I would agree in most circumstances, but this one is a little different.   If you speak out against Incognito, you risk being labelled as a crybaby wimp amongst your peers.

His value here isn't in the stats so to speak except if you are looking at penalties for/against, so based on what I've read, it sounds like teammates appreciated his role of being able to "**** with" the opposition and even be the ahole on their team. One of those, he's a jerk, but he's our jerk.

[bnickle]

Teammates, or at least some, thought they were relatively close. I tend to think there was a  relationship there between the 2. I think it's exactly as described as a big brother, little brother thing. We've heard that Incognito  defended Martin. How many times have we seen that where the big brother picks on the little brother a bit but at the end of the day no one else is going to mess with him either.

 

 

Often,  the little brother eventually has enough and fights back. Instead, Martin just keeps running and crying to Mommy.

 

 

Again, as someone said earlier you really have to know where you stand in that regard when it comes to people who really aren't family or aren't and you're in an environment like an NFL lockerroom. Things can turn sour quick.  But I get it and I get why Ireland at one time said Martin needs to punch him or defend himself.

[Oriole85]

Teammates, or at least some, thought they were relatively close. I tend to think there was a  relationship there between the 2. I think it's exactly as described as a big brother, little brother thing. We've heard that Incognito  defended Martin. How many times have we seen that where the big brother picks on the little brother a bit but at the end of the day no one else is going to mess with him either.

 

 

Often,  the little brother eventually has enough and fights back. Instead, Martin just keeps running and crying to Mommy.

 

 

Again, as someone said earlier you really have to know where you stand in that regard when it comes to people who really aren't family or aren't or brother and your in an environment like an NFL lockerroom. Things can turn sour quick.  But I get it and I get why Ireland at one time said Martin needs to punch him or defend himself.

There could've been a positive relationship at one point, but things change. Do you ever change your feelings about someone? I'm not sure how much I believe from Dolphins players, the locker room sounds like it was pretty toxic. Incognito had a very troubled past, so I'm not buying the whole big bro-little bro thing here.

 

Martin "cried to mommy" after being verbally harassed/abused for a year. Crying to mommy resulted in a trip to the hospital and removal from the team.

 

Jeff Ireland is the same person who asked Dez Bryant if his mom was a prostitute. The football locker room isn't immune to normal workplace abuse laws. Should you be able to take some good ribbing, sure. But like I said, there's a threshold to everything. And it's different for different people.

 

I'm curious what you'd do if you were in Martin's situation, since you are borderline defending Incognito here. Would you just not say anything? Would you physically fight back and risk getting suspended (and Incognito looks like the good guy)? 

[KWebz]

I think that Martin likely has experienced something in his past where this bullying triggered something that became a big deal. I don't think you can dismiss it as him being "soft" or a "crybaby" as potential mental conditions are not about being a wimp but instead about trauma or a chemical imbalance. I stand by that I want to hear Martin's complete story. As for team mates supporting him! It could be that he has the whole team wrapped around his bully finger or that they are showing loyalty.

[KWebz]

Of course I'm assuming that he didn't completely overreact or was looking for a complicated and involved way of leaving the nfl without looking like a quitter.

[bnickle]

Its a lockerroom of alpha males. 1 OL isn't going to have his finger wrapped around a whole team. If he was a bully that was doing this all the time this is the time where other players would be coming out backing up Martin, or at least wouldn't be supporting Incognito.

 

 

It's an interesting dynamic for sure, and as I said,Incognito has isssues and took things too far. My guess is Martin also has issues and wasn't respected very much by his teammates.

[DJ MC]

PFT: In Incognito case, it’s critical to keep an open mind

[bnickle]

Of course I'm assuming that he didn't completely overreact or was looking for a complicated and involved way of leaving the nfl without looking like a quitter.

Im not accusing him of this. We need more information but I think this is certainly possible. Reading between the lines, I think that's what some of his teammates think. Maybe not completely leaving the NFL, but getting out of the Dolphins organization.

 

 

 

Again speculation on my part, and I don't want to go too far down this road , but he was struggling at the pro level. Instead of just walking away or toiling away as a backup T for 4-5 years, this is a chance to save some face.