21 replies to this topic

[BSLMikeLowe]

And like I mentioned, FSU totally schooled us every time coming out of time-outs tonight.

Agreed, and that's on Turgeon and is an area where he must improve.

And not blaming Turgeon, since it could have been a player that just had a brain cramp, but how you go through that final sequence without having a guy on Snaer like white-on-rice is absolutely inexcusable. Even my dog who is lying next to me sound asleep knew he'd be taking the shot.

[Adam Wolff]

I really have no idea how to accurate evaluate this, but this seems like one of the most underwelming teams I can remember. There is talent here. For Christ's sake, you have a 7 footer and two other very talented bigs. Last I checked, that alone gets you somewhere in college bball. Let alone the number of other pieces.

Turgeon has been an awesome recruiter. And I'm not ready to start putting things on him. But I'm just not entirely sure he's getting it all out of this team. I know they're young and whatever. I just think they're regularly losing to teams that are less talented. Walk through each opponent and go player for player. MD can compete and is better than many.

It's a unique feeling because, let's face it, Gary didn't recruit anyone and usually got more out of them than he should have. Again, I'm not trying to vilify Turgeon, but this team, talent wise, has really underperformed.

[Mackus]

Just finished watching the game. Absolutely devastating loss.

There is just not one single player on this team with an ounce of basketball IQ. There are certainly some talented guys, and the rebounding margin and Wells' heroics nearly got them the win despite being outplayed in every other regard, but the complete stupidity of everyone on the team just destroyed their chances. Faust missing free throws, everyone throwing the ball away, terrible rushed shots, somehow deciding that you don't have to cover Michael freaking Snaer on a last second shot...just a lack of any concept of what smart basketball should be.

And Turgeon...I thought he was a good in-game coach based on last season, but he's been abysmal this year. Outcoached nearly every time out it seems. I know he's recruited some exciting talent, but he's done a terrible job coaching up this team this season. He's got a lot of work to do. They do play hard the whole game, so it's not an effort thing. And I don't think it's a talent thing, though you could say they are trying to put a lot of square pegs into round holes and make a lineup that way. The lack of an acceptable PG is really hurting the offense, though I didn't think that was the problem tonight.

[bnickle]

If your gonna say this team has poor basketball IQ(they do), than I don't see where you can get too upset at Turg. The guy is a stickler for doing things the right way. He was a PG in college. He is a smart basketball guy. He can't go out on the court and play for his kids. If this team had even a league average PG they would be well on their way to the tourny. They don't, and it's going to be their undoing.

[You Play to Win the Game]

If your gonna say this team has poor basketball IQ(they do), than I don't see where you can get too upset at Turg. The guy is a stickler for doing things the right way. He was a PG in college. He is a smart basketball guy. He can't go out on the court and play for his kids. If this team had even a league average PG they would be well on their way to the tourny. They don't, and it's going to be their undoing.

This is kind of where I am. It's not that I'm not worried a little bit about Turg's in game coaching... I am. And I think he completely screwed the pooch with the OOC, but that's a different conversation. But I still believe he can be a good in-game coach. We were just so spoiled with Gary in that regard.

[Mackus]

If your gonna say this team has poor basketball IQ(they do), than I don't see where you can get too upset at Turg. The guy is a stickler for doing things the right way. He was a PG in college. He is a smart basketball guy. He can't go out on the court and play for his kids. If this team had even a league average PG they would be well on their way to the tourny. They don't, and it's going to be their undoing.

I'm not necessarily too upset with him, I just don't think he's done a good job this year. While individual basketball IQ and coaching aren't necessarily hand-in-hand, they aren't unrelated. Maybe he just hasn't had enough time with some of these guys to get them to really buy in to the way he wants them to play.

My big complaint about Turgeon from last night's game were the inbounds plays on the offensive end, particularly the 3 consecutive inbounds plays about halfway through the second half. That was a clinic in how not to coach up a team. In bounds plays are almost always designed calls. We had some trouble inbounding in the first half, Wells threw one away trying to go inside but luckily Padgett (I think) collected the loose ball so it wasn't a turnover. In the second half, we nearly had two straight 5-second calls while absolutely nobody on the floor was moving, saved by the deep throw in back across half court to the PG. That's an ok safety valve, but to make no effort to cut or get open before just throwing it deep is baffling. Then they finally did manage to turn it over on the next inbounds attempt, basically just handing the ball over to the FSU on-ball defender. I think that all 3 of these were on the same offensive possession, as FSU tipped the rebounds out of bounds after the first two.

I also don't think that Faust should be in the game at the end when you have a lead. He's too weak with the ball and he struggles to make free throws, especially pressured ones. How many times have we seen him have a nearly completely unforced turnover in a critical, late-game situation or not came through at the free throw line? Faust needs to make those free throws, but the missed one-and-one is on Turgeon as well for having him in the game with a minute to go.

Other small things that are also annoying me about this team, and I think it's largely due to the system. Not that the system is inherently flawed, but I don't think it's a great fit for these players. For a team with almost no outside shooters and nobody who can create off the dribble, we sure seem to let the shot clock run down to where someone has to take a tough jumper or try to beat their man one-on-one an awful lot. I don't think it's Turgeon's fault at all when Faust tries to throw an alley-oop to Wells on the break and hits the shot clock instead. I do think Turg gets some of the blame when the offense can't consistently get good looks in the half-court set on the fraction of possessions that the manage to not turn it over. Maybe a lot of these can be explained by not having a PG, but Turgeon knew that all he had coming back last season was an even more-injured Howard. He could have recruited a true PG even if the guy wasn't as good as another piece he's been able to add that didn't fill as much of a need.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Turgeon came to MD as a former MVC Coach of the Year, and the 2x Big12 Coach of the Year.

Based on that, and what we heard from a lot of sources, my expectations for Turgeon as a coach (in-game adjustments, game planning, overall effort, etc) were pretty high.

If Gary was a '9' as a coach, what is Turgeon? To me, I'm thinking he's a 7.5. He is a step below Gary in that regard, but probably still better than most. I do think Turgeon has lost several games Gary would have won, and we've yet to see Turgeon win a game (aside from maybe NCST), where MD was not expected to win.

Like others, I had a problem with the OOC schedule this year. I also disliked Turgeon's answer that he didn't anticipate MD being good enough to justify a harder schedule.

To be fair to Turgeon, even though they were playing the little sisters of the poor, there were no unexpected slip-ups. As we saw during the last 7-8 years of Gary's tenure... they would occasionally have games where they lost games they had no business losing.

I also give credit to Turgeon for what MD is doing rebounding wise. It's not just a matter of having a big, talented, front-line. Turgeon gets credit for stressing rebounding.

Of course, if Gary was a '9' as a coach, he was a '6' or so as a recruiter. Turgeon deserves the accolades he has received, for the staff he has put together, and their recruiting efforts. He probably deserves at-least an '8' in that regard.

People like Turgeon's bluntness about his team. I'd like to see a bit more personal accountability from him, and going to the walls to protect his team. A bit more bunker mentality.

Overall, I'm still happy Turgeon is the Coach. I think Turgeon is going to be around for a long time, and MD is going to win a lot of games with him.

[SportsGuy]

If your gonna say this team has poor basketball IQ(they do), than I don't see where you can get too upset at Turg. The guy is a stickler for doing things the right way. He was a PG in college. He is a smart basketball guy. He can't go out on the court and play for his kids. If this team had even a league average PG they would be well on their way to the tourny. They don't, and it's going to be their undoing.

They don't have a great basketball IQ but what system are they running to take advantage of the pure talent and athleticism?

The NC St game is the one I watched all the way through(well and Duke of course), so I can only intelligently speak on that game...but in that game, he has the terrible Padgett in at the end, when State went to the zone, his shooters weren't out on the floor enough and when they were, they didn't even really touch the ball.

Now, again, that is on the players as well but Turg got outcoached in that game and then, I have seen bits and pieces of other games and have just been totally underwhelmed by his in game coaching.

He is a good coach and, like Chris said, better than most but he can't hold Gary's jock in terms of a pure X and O, in game coach. The Terps had the 3rd most ACC wins over a long stretch with Gary...and there were plenty of teams that had more talent than he did but the coaches weren't that great, so they didn't get as much out of their players as Gary did, which allowed the Terps to play with Duke and UNC, despite a talent difference.

This is what is going to be interesting to me...For years, many of you complained about the talent Gary was bringing in and that was fair...Well, now let's see if a guy like Turg, who brings the talent in, can also coach it.

MD should be a tourney team basically every year...in most years, they should be a legit sweet 16 team and in the occassional year, they should be a final 4 level team. For many years under Gary, they were just that. Can Turg do the same with more talent?

[glenn__davis]

Disappointed in his in-game coaching so far, but just so hard to judge a coach when he doesn't have his guys in yet. I remain very high on this freshman class, I think you're going to see big things from them. Obviously we all know he needs to solve the PG problem.

I still maintain that, while I didn't have a huge issue with the OOC schedule this year, Turgeon did not properly use it to prepare his guys for ACC play in terms of continuity and cohesiveness. I do think things have improved dramatically over the past few games, but it may be too late at this point.

[SportsGuy]

Disappointed in his in-game coaching so far, but just so hard to judge a coach when he doesn't have his guys in yet. I remain very high on this freshman class, I think you're going to see big things from them. Obviously we all know he needs to solve the PG problem.

I still maintain that, while I didn't have a huge issue with the OOC schedule this year, Turgeon did not properly use it to prepare his guys for ACC play in terms of continuity and cohesiveness. I do think things have improved dramatically over the past few games, but it may be too late at this point.

Good point...he didn't challenge these guys at all.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Agreed, and that's on Turgeon and is an area where he must improve.

And not blaming Turgeon, since it could have been a player that just had a brain cramp, but how you go through that final sequence without having a guy on Snaer like white-on-rice is absolutely inexcusable. Even my dog who is lying next to me sound asleep knew he'd be taking the shot.

I finally mustered the stomach to watch the replay. It was Wells who left Snaer to go after the penetrating G....didn't even have to, as Len was standing right in front of him to protect the basket. You could see from his expression when the shot when in that Wells knew he blew it. A huge black mark on an otherwise great game for him.

[BSLChrisStoner]

A huge black mark on an otherwise great game for him.

That and his 6 turnovers.

[SBTarheel]

As an "outsider", three words come to mind:

He ain't Gary.


To be fair, he doesn't have a point guard, but Wells HAS to have the ball down the stretch last night.

That being said, he seems to be building something really nice there, so you guys should be more excited for the future than down about last night's loss.

[BSLMattJergensen]

http://terpsinsider.... ... n-offense/

Turge should go back in the vault and use both of these sets out of his motion. These players need some direction and they need their options limited.

[mdak06]

I'd like to remind everyone that most of the guys getting major minutes on this team are freshman and sophomores. It is still a VERY young team. As has also been mentioned many times, there really isn't an ACC-level point guard on the team right now.

I think Turgeon overachieved last year. I think the expectations rose this year and haven't yet been met, in part because they're a young team and they're incorporating many new parts into the system.

Turgeon himself has complained that his team hasn't executed what he's asked them to do out of timeouts. It's not his fault that Len misses a dunk, or Faust misses some critical free throws.

Looking forward, seven of the guys getting major minutes right now will be back next year (eight if for some reason Len returns), and Smotrycz will already know Turgeon's system, having had a year of practicing it. This year, there are only four guys who returned from the last year, and two of them (Howard and Padgett) aren't as helpful as we'd hope a junior and senior would be.

I'm still optimistic long-term. As Chris mentioned, he's won coaching awards before in two previous conferences, and those were at schools with nowhere near the recruiting potential of Maryland. I think he'll be good for the Terps, but I also think that it's not going to be instantly successful.

[BSLMattJergensen]

As an "outsider", three words come to mind:

He ain't Gary.


To be fair, he doesn't have a point guard, but Wells HAS to have the ball down the stretch last night.

That being said, he seems to be building something really nice there, so you guys should be more excited for the future than down about last night's loss.

True. I know Gary's situation was a bit different considering the sanctions but he didn't make the tournament until year 5.

Be patient.

[Oriole85]

I think Turgeon overachieved last year. I think the expectations rose this year and haven't yet been met, in part because they're a young team and they're incorporating many new parts into the system.

Not sure how you can overachieve when you miss the NIT at a school like MD even if expectations were pretty low. I think the only reason many weren't disappointed with that outcome is because of a new coach.The third year is more or less a make-or-break year for a coach in this current climate in college sports.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Not sure how you can overachieve when you miss the NIT at a school like MD even if expectations were pretty low. I think the only reason many weren't disappointed with that outcome is because of a new coach.The third year is more or less a make-or-break year for a coach in this current climate in college sports.

Do you think Turg's season next year will be make-or-break for him?

[bnickle]

Turg had Wich St ranked and took them to the Sweet 16. He made the tourny every year at A&M. He can coach a bit. The expectations were too high for this year and causing some to think he's underachieving. The problem is a lot of the players just aren't that good. Hopefully, a lot of that is youth but we hve no one that can consistenytly shoot the basketball, we have no one that can consistently handle the basketball. How exactly do you coach up a team to avoid some of the stupid, horrible turnovers we have every night. it's simply a lack of basketball IQ, ball handling, good court awareness-vision. You teach execution, you can't teach skill.

Still, the offensive execution has been better the last two games. You see it coming along. Not where you want it but much better than the first 8 games in the conference. If we can continue to execute even at this rate and just find a way to cut down on some of the turnovers we'll when the majority of our games we have left on the schedule.


Here is the bottom line for me. Turg in his 2nd year, with mostly underclassmen, is going to end up with a year like a lot of Gary's final 6-7 years. a 20+ win team, a .500 ish ACC record, and fighting to get on the NCAA bubble. It's amazing where the perception of underachieving and overachieving lead you. Right to the same spot.

[bnickle]

Not sure how you can overachieve when you miss the NIT at a school like MD even if expectations were pretty low. I think the only reason many weren't disappointed with that outcome is because of a new coach.The third year is more or less a make-or-break year for a coach in this current climate in college sports.

There were like 6 scholarship players on the roster. I think everyone thought we were headed for a UNC '02 8 win season or somewhere around there. They did well to win 17 games and finish above .500.